Manchester United vs. Crystal Palace match thread

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Manchester United vs. Crystal Palace match thread

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Wilbraham413 06 Dec 21 1.50am
Originally posted by Tickled pink So what would you have written if Ayew's attempt hadn't just missed but gone in I wonder... And what would I write if Benteke made an aggressive run into the box and buried an easy chance for a goal? Or if Ward scores a hat trick? All these things are equally improbable. Ayew hasn't scored in over a year, and it's not due to lack of playing time. I'm happy to go on record that I would never start Ayew under any circumstance, and that Ayew will never score another goal for Palace. And further, we will never get a point in a match that Schlupp starts. 2017 Feb. (Van Aanholt) Palace 1 - 0 Middlesboro 2018 Jan. (Sako) Palace 1 - 0 Burnley 2019 May (Batshuayi, Batshuayi, OG, Van Aanholt, Townsend) Palace 5 - 3 Bournemouth 2020 Feb. (Van Aanholt) Palace 1 - 0 Newcastle
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Wilbraham413

06 Dec 21 1.50am

Originally posted by Tickled pink

So what would you have written if Ayew's attempt hadn't just missed but gone in I wonder...

And what would I write if Benteke made an aggressive run into the box and buried an easy chance for a goal? Or if Ward scores a hat trick?

All these things are equally improbable. Ayew hasn't scored in over a year, and it's not due to lack of playing time.

I'm happy to go on record that I would never start Ayew under any circumstance, and that Ayew will never score another goal for Palace. And further, we will never get a point in a match that Schlupp starts.

2017 Feb. (Van Aanholt) Palace 1 - 0 Middlesboro
2018 Jan. (Sako) Palace 1 - 0 Burnley
2019 May (Batshuayi, Batshuayi, OG, Van Aanholt, Townsend) Palace 5 - 3 Bournemouth
2020 Feb. (Van Aanholt) Palace 1 - 0 Newcastle

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Wilbraham413 06 Dec 21 2.01am
Originally posted by PatrickA The important thing is that Vieira recognised the failings against both Villa and today and did not seek to make excuses about facing new manager bounce. From the press conference today he said, - we weren’t brave enough on the ball - we didn’t play between the lines to give them problems - there were too many long balls - our forwards didn’t hold the ball up well enough. He thought we did quite well defensively but not offensively. This gives the impression that the team didn’t play as instructed and I’ve no doubt changes will be made if this pattern continues. And this is at should be - no favourites. We have the squad now to make changes. He also said he had planned to give Hughes some time today, but when we went a goal behind he put on more attacking players instead. I have to admit, I'm disturbed by PV's post-match comments. 1) Too many long balls? That's because he put out a lineup incapable of passing. Did he seriously think that Tomkins was going to pass to Kouyate, who would beat a few defenders, then make a beautiful pass to Schlupp, who would play a gorgeous through ball to the forwards? I mean, it's ridiculous. Our lineup couldn't make 2 passes in a row all day. 2) Forwards didn't hold the ball up? What does that mean? Hold the ball up for who? We barely kicked one ball up to Benteke the entire match. Wilf tried to do some things but failed. Ayew is not good, but the one thing he actually did today hold the ball up and win a few fouls calls. I have no clue WTF PV is talking about with this comment. 3) Planning to give Hughes some time? That could have been accomplished by starting him over Schlupp. Apparently PV was surprised that he put out a weak lineup incapable of scoring, then fell behind to ManU. This is another bizarro comment. The worst part of these comments is that he seems to believe he made the right team choice. Which means this is going to get uglier before it gets better. 2017 Feb. (Van Aanholt) Palace 1 - 0 Middlesboro 2018 Jan. (Sako) Palace 1 - 0 Burnley 2019 May (Batshuayi, Batshuayi, OG, Van Aanholt, Townsend) Palace 5 - 3 Bournemouth 2020 Feb. (Van Aanholt) Palace 1 - 0 Newcastle
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Wilbraham413

06 Dec 21 2.01am

Originally posted by PatrickA

The important thing is that Vieira recognised the failings against both Villa and today and did not seek to make excuses about facing new manager bounce.
From the press conference today he said,
- we weren’t brave enough on the ball
- we didn’t play between the lines to give them problems
- there were too many long balls
- our forwards didn’t hold the ball up well enough.
He thought we did quite well defensively but not offensively.
This gives the impression that the team didn’t play as instructed and I’ve no doubt changes will be made if this pattern continues.
And this is at should be - no favourites.
We have the squad now to make changes.
He also said he had planned to give Hughes some time today, but when we went a goal behind he put on more attacking players instead.

I have to admit, I'm disturbed by PV's post-match comments.

1) Too many long balls? That's because he put out a lineup incapable of passing. Did he seriously think that Tomkins was going to pass to Kouyate, who would beat a few defenders, then make a beautiful pass to Schlupp, who would play a gorgeous through ball to the forwards? I mean, it's ridiculous. Our lineup couldn't make 2 passes in a row all day.

2) Forwards didn't hold the ball up? What does that mean? Hold the ball up for who? We barely kicked one ball up to Benteke the entire match. Wilf tried to do some things but failed. Ayew is not good, but the one thing he actually did today hold the ball up and win a few fouls calls. I have no clue WTF PV is talking about with this comment.

3) Planning to give Hughes some time? That could have been accomplished by starting him over Schlupp. Apparently PV was surprised that he put out a weak lineup incapable of scoring, then fell behind to ManU. This is another bizarro comment.

The worst part of these comments is that he seems to believe he made the right team choice. Which means this is going to get uglier before it gets better.

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southnorwoodhill 06 Dec 21 6.13am
It's like a game of snakes and ladders. A new manager starts off with a new vision and style of play, it looks good, is easy on the eye, results aren't quite what they could or should have been but hey-ho we're mid-table and things can only get better. Cue injuries to two key players of this new style and the slide back down the ladder is on. Kouyate, Schlupp, Benteke, - Royball is deeply engrained in them and it shows. The first real big test of PV's Palace career. Benteke and Kouyate should never start, it's just the same old. As for Zaha, he has the name and reputation, but I'd say his performance on the day can be negligible in comparison. Edited by southnorwoodhill (06 Dec 2021 7.03am)
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southnorwoodhill

06 Dec 21 6.13am

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It's like a game of snakes and ladders. A new manager starts off with a new vision and style of play, it looks good, is easy on the eye, results aren't quite what they could or should have been but hey-ho we're mid-table and things can only get better. Cue injuries to two key players of this new style and the slide back down the ladder is on. Kouyate, Schlupp, Benteke, - Royball is deeply engrained in them and it shows.
The first real big test of PV's Palace career.
Benteke and Kouyate should never start, it's just the same old. As for Zaha, he has the name and reputation, but I'd say his performance on the day can be negligible in comparison.

Edited by southnorwoodhill (06 Dec 2021 7.03am)

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PatrickA London 06 Dec 21 7.42am
This raises some interesting points. Was the side selected not capable of playing the way that Vieira wants to play? If so, it could be argued that players who can play the high pressing, quick and accurate passing style should have been selected instead. Alternatively, a different tactic could have been employed for the players selected on the day. Is it a case of right players, wrong tactics or wrong players, right tactics? It would be a concern if just taking Mcarthur and Anderson out of the team has such a disruptive effect. The United team that started yesterday had two inexperienced full backs and two centre backs who always have a mistake in them and yet we barely laid a glove on them. Schlupp started off at Leicester as a striker and subsequently featured as a left back,left wing back or left sided midfield player. How has he suddenly come to be seen as a central midfield player? If Hughes, for whatever reason, is not seen as capable of replacing Mcarthur, we need to buy/find someone who can perform the role because Mcarthur isn’t getting any younger. Originally posted by Wilbraham413 I have to admit, I'm disturbed by PV's post-match comments. 1) Too many long balls? That's because he put out a lineup incapable of passing. Did he seriously think that Tomkins was going to pass to Kouyate, who would beat a few defenders, then make a beautiful pass to Schlupp, who would play a gorgeous through ball to the forwards? I mean, it's ridiculous. Our lineup couldn't make 2 passes in a row all day. 2) Forwards didn't hold the ball up? What does that mean? Hold the ball up for who? We barely kicked one ball up to Benteke the entire match. Wilf tried to do some things but failed. Ayew is not good, but the one thing he actually did today hold the ball up and win a few fouls calls. I have no clue WTF PV is talking about with this comment. 3) Planning to give Hughes some time? That could have been accomplished by starting him over Schlupp. Apparently PV was surprised that he put out a weak lineup incapable of scoring, then fell behind to ManU. This is another bizarro comment. The worst part of these comments is that he seems to believe he made the right team choice. Which means this is going to get uglier before it gets better.
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PatrickA

London 06 Dec 21 7.42am

This raises some interesting points.
Was the side selected not capable of playing the way that Vieira wants to play?
If so, it could be argued that players who can play the high pressing, quick and accurate passing style should have been selected instead.
Alternatively, a different tactic could have been employed for the players selected on the day.
Is it a case of right players, wrong tactics or wrong players, right tactics?
It would be a concern if just taking Mcarthur and Anderson out of the team has such a disruptive effect.
The United team that started yesterday had two inexperienced full backs and two centre backs who always have a mistake in them and yet we barely laid a glove on them.
Schlupp started off at Leicester as a striker and subsequently featured as a left back,left wing back or left sided midfield player.
How has he suddenly come to be seen as a central midfield player?
If Hughes, for whatever reason, is not seen as capable of replacing Mcarthur, we need to buy/find someone who can perform the role because Mcarthur isn’t getting any younger.

Originally posted by Wilbraham413

I have to admit, I'm disturbed by PV's post-match comments.

The worst part of these comments is that he seems to believe he made the right team choice. Which means this is going to get uglier before it gets better.

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antipodeagle Wellington 06 Dec 21 8.40am
Originally posted by PatrickA This raises some interesting points. Was the side selected not capable of playing the way that Vieira wants to play? If so, it could be argued that players who can play the high pressing, quick and accurate passing style should have been selected instead. Alternatively, a different tactic could have been employed for the players selected on the day. Is it a case of right players, wrong tactics or wrong players, right tactics? It would be a concern if just taking Mcarthur and Anderson out of the team has such a disruptive effect. The United team that started yesterday had two inexperienced full backs and two centre backs who always have a mistake in them and yet we barely laid a glove on them. Schlupp started off at Leicester as a striker and subsequently featured as a left back,left wing back or left sided midfield player. How has he suddenly come to be seen as a central midfield player? If Hughes, for whatever reason, is not seen as capable of replacing Mcarthur, we need to buy/find someone who can perform the role because Mcarthur isn’t getting any younger. Good points, well made. I was very disappointed not to see Hughes start ahead of Schlupp. His short cameo last week looked like he added so much more, and carried himself like a proper central midfielder which, tbf to Schlupp (as you say), he isn't and never has been.
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antipodeagle

Wellington 06 Dec 21 8.40am

Originally posted by PatrickA

Good points, well made. I was very disappointed not to see Hughes start ahead of Schlupp. His short cameo last week looked like he added so much more, and carried himself like a proper central midfielder which, tbf to Schlupp (as you say), he isn't and never has been.

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eritheagle Erith 06 Dec 21 9.47am
Originally posted by kennybrowns leftfoot No he wasn't. 2 others were who, if they had got a touch on it would meant it would of been disallowed but Ayew was fine. I know it doesn’t matter now but just seen it again and I think as well as the two others who were offside (but not interfering) I also think that there’s a very strong possibility that Ayew would’ve been ruled offside by VAR had he scored or Guehi poked it in.
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eritheagle

Erith 06 Dec 21 9.47am

Originally posted by kennybrowns leftfoot

No he wasn't. 2 others were who, if they had got a touch on it would meant it would of been disallowed but Ayew was fine.

I know it doesn’t matter now but just seen it again and I think as well as the two others who were offside (but not interfering) I also think that there’s a very strong possibility that Ayew would’ve been ruled offside by VAR had he scored or Guehi poked it in.

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Phil’s Barber Crowborough 06 Dec 21 9.53am
Originally posted by eritheagle I know it doesn’t matter now but just seen it again and I think as well as the two others who were offside (but not interfering) I also think that there’s a very strong possibility that Ayew would’ve been ruled offside by VAR had he scored or Guehi poked it in. Kouyate and Mitchell are definitely offside when Tomkins heads the ball. From studying it I believe Ayew would have been judged marginally offside by VAR (especially knowing our luck). His stance seems to be wider than McTominay’s and I think Ayew’s right foot would’ve been slightly ahead and therefore offside. It is close though. Attachment: 8DDA07F5-3636-40D1-BBA7-DCC9B16DDEF6.png (6,596.62Kb)
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Phil’s Barber

Crowborough 06 Dec 21 9.53am

Originally posted by eritheagle

Kouyate and Mitchell are definitely offside when Tomkins heads the ball. From studying it I believe Ayew would have been judged marginally offside by VAR (especially knowing our luck). His stance seems to be wider than McTominay’s and I think Ayew’s right foot would’ve been slightly ahead and therefore offside. It is close though.

Attachment: 8DDA07F5-3636-40D1-BBA7-DCC9B16DDEF6.png (6,596.62Kb)

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Phil’s Barber Crowborough 06 Dec 21 9.53am
And another angle… Attachment: 5B34661A-7948-47F1-8502-D77AC3982F4F.png (8,663.83Kb)
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Phil’s Barber

Crowborough 06 Dec 21 9.53am

And another angle…

Attachment: 5B34661A-7948-47F1-8502-D77AC3982F4F.png (8,663.83Kb)

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NEILLO Shoreham-by-Sea 06 Dec 21 10.11am
It's very fine margins in the Premier League. 3 defeats in a week hurts. All by 1 goal margins. And if you look beyond the results and look at the performances over the season so far, that's what gives me cause for concern. Our 3 wins were all convincing ones. I don't think Spurs, City or Wolves could have any complaints. Similarly, we were well beaten at Chelsea in particular and Liverpool. Then you look at how often we have conceded late in games, dropping valuable points in the process. This group seem unable to ' win ugly '. We either play PV's style to a high standard, or, as has been the case in the last week, we look less than convincing and come away with nothing. Being without Andersen and MacArthur is not a valid reason for the downturn. A hard week on the training ground beckons. The next 3 games have now become highly important to us. Old, Ungifted and White
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NEILLO

Shoreham-by-Sea 06 Dec 21 10.11am

It's very fine margins in the Premier League.

3 defeats in a week hurts. All by 1 goal margins.

And if you look beyond the results and look at the performances over the season so far, that's what gives me cause for concern.

Our 3 wins were all convincing ones. I don't think Spurs, City or Wolves could have any complaints.

Similarly, we were well beaten at Chelsea in particular and Liverpool.

Then you look at how often we have conceded late in games, dropping valuable points in the process.

This group seem unable to ' win ugly '. We either play PV's style to a high standard, or, as has been the case in the last week, we look less than convincing and come away with nothing.

Being without Andersen and MacArthur is not a valid reason for the downturn.

A hard week on the training ground beckons. The next 3 games have now become highly important to us.

Old, Ungifted and White

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eritheagle Erith 06 Dec 21 11.11am
Originally posted by Phil’s Barber Kouyate and Mitchell are definitely offside when Tomkins heads the ball. From studying it I believe Ayew would have been judged marginally offside by VAR (especially knowing our luck). His stance seems to be wider than McTominay’s and I think Ayew’s right foot would’ve been slightly ahead and therefore offside. It is close though. Thanks for that. Although marginal I think Ayew’s foot would’ve been given offside.
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eritheagle

Erith 06 Dec 21 11.11am

Originally posted by Phil’s Barber

Thanks for that. Although marginal I think Ayew’s foot would’ve been given offside.

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eritheagle Erith 06 Dec 21 11.15am
Originally posted by NEILLO It's very fine margins in the Premier League. 3 defeats in a week hurts. All by 1 goal margins. And if you look beyond the results and look at the performances over the season so far, that's what gives me cause for concern. Our 3 wins were all convincing ones. I don't think Spurs, City or Wolves could have any complaints. Similarly, we were well beaten at Chelsea in particular and Liverpool. Then you look at how often we have conceded late in games, dropping valuable points in the process. This group seem unable to ' win ugly '. We either play PV's style to a high standard, or, as has been the case in the last week, we look less than convincing and come away with nothing. Being without Andersen and MacArthur is not a valid reason for the downturn. A hard week on the training ground beckons. The next 3 games have now become highly important to us. I think Tomkins has played well but we have missed Anderson’s long passes out of defence that gives us another dimension when teams press us high up the pitch. With his passes we have the option of turning defence into attack very quickly.
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eritheagle

Erith 06 Dec 21 11.15am

Originally posted by NEILLO

It's very fine margins in the Premier League.

3 defeats in a week hurts. All by 1 goal margins.

And if you look beyond the results and look at the performances over the season so far, that's what gives me cause for concern.

Our 3 wins were all convincing ones. I don't think Spurs, City or Wolves could have any complaints.

Similarly, we were well beaten at Chelsea in particular and Liverpool.

Then you look at how often we have conceded late in games, dropping valuable points in the process.

This group seem unable to ' win ugly '. We either play PV's style to a high standard, or, as has been the case in the last week, we look less than convincing and come away with nothing.

Being without Andersen and MacArthur is not a valid reason for the downturn.

A hard week on the training ground beckons. The next 3 games have now become highly important to us.

I think Tomkins has played well but we have missed Anderson’s long passes out of defence that gives us another dimension when teams press us high up the pitch. With his passes we have the option of turning defence into attack very quickly.

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palace99 New Mills 06 Dec 21 11.16am
Originally posted by Wilbraham413 I have to admit, I'm disturbed by PV's post-match comments. 1) Too many long balls? That's because he put out a lineup incapable of passing. Did he seriously think that Tomkins was going to pass to Kouyate, who would beat a few defenders, then make a beautiful pass to Schlupp, who would play a gorgeous through ball to the forwards? I mean, it's ridiculous. Our lineup couldn't make 2 passes in a row all day. 2) Forwards didn't hold the ball up? What does that mean? Hold the ball up for who? We barely kicked one ball up to Benteke the entire match. Wilf tried to do some things but failed. Ayew is not good, but the one thing he actually did today hold the ball up and win a few fouls calls. I have no clue WTF PV is talking about with this comment. 3) Planning to give Hughes some time? That could have been accomplished by starting him over Schlupp. Apparently PV was surprised that he put out a weak lineup incapable of scoring, then fell behind to ManU. This is another bizarro comment. The worst part of these comments is that he seems to believe he made the right team choice. Which means this is going to get uglier before it gets better. Have to agree. The line up and performance was strange. After 10 minutes it was pretty obvious we wouldn't score unless we got one out of the blue (e.g Ayew v Man U 2 years ago) so we were just defending for a 0.0. Tomkins can not play it out of defence so why even try. Midfield lacked a good passer, someone to take it off the centre backs. Same v Leeds so not sure what more evidence PV needed to know a change was required. Tekkers didn't get much service but when he did he was poor. Never held the ball up and was too often caught on the back foot and not anticipating. Wilf was Wilf. We let him get away with murder at times. Every team has injuries, we can't blame it on having 2 regulars out, but is does appear the high press has suddenly disappeared. Next 3 games are massive. Hopefully, we can recapture the form from 5 or so games ago.
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palace99

New Mills 06 Dec 21 11.16am

Originally posted by Wilbraham413

I have to admit, I'm disturbed by PV's post-match comments.

The worst part of these comments is that he seems to believe he made the right team choice. Which means this is going to get uglier before it gets better.

Have to agree. The line up and performance was strange. After 10 minutes it was pretty obvious we wouldn't score unless we got one out of the blue (e.g Ayew v Man U 2 years ago) so we were just defending for a 0.0.

Tomkins can not play it out of defence so why even try. Midfield lacked a good passer, someone to take it off the centre backs. Same v Leeds so not sure what more evidence PV needed to know a change was required.

Tekkers didn't get much service but when he did he was poor. Never held the ball up and was too often caught on the back foot and not anticipating.

Wilf was Wilf. We let him get away with murder at times.

Every team has injuries, we can't blame it on having 2 regulars out, but is does appear the high press has suddenly disappeared.

Next 3 games are massive. Hopefully, we can recapture the form from 5 or so games ago.

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