If I think what I would have done to the IRA if I had been in power and to the people who would have looked to stop me.....This isn't a topic I can speak that rationally on.

I would not have came to the agreement that emerged no. But I would have been open to discussions.

The IRA were not in a strong position at the time and I think what has happened is the long term abandonment of the unionists via the cowards way out.

Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Jan 2018 1.32pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirling,I talk from the position of "me"...notwithstanding my (admittedly naff) username I chose on the spur of the moment years ago

And remember,I was talking about the events of Bloody Sunday specifically,not the Troubles generally.

The Good Friday agreement also released Loyalist murderers as well. I think pragmatically it was the right decision - especially with hindsight - as its massively reduced the problems of Northern Ireland and largely resulted in a unprecedented level of peace as well as positive changes socially. The cost of that peace and stability, I'm not keen on, but I think the days of the paramilitaries are all but dead, and generations of Irish kids have grown out of the sectarianism and division, sufficiently, that I suspect within the next generation the likes of Sinn Fein and the DUP will be more benign political entities.

As for Bloody Sunday, there should have been a proper enquiry, and those troops responsible for firing, should have been held accountable along with their officers. They acted unlawfully, and the result was a massive recruiting drive for the Provisional IRA, an escalation in violence and derailed the mostly civil rights movement.

Bloody Sunday, I can't abide by that. Unarmed civilians shot and killed by the army, without any real provocation. The state then protected and covered up afterwards, and engaged in a series of attempts to paint those killed as terrorists, inc planting evidence.

Unacceptable in any country that claims to be a democratic authority of law. Even in a war zone, their actions were criminal. Protecting them envigorated the Provisional IRA, ended the non-partisan civil rights movement at its height - and resulted in an escalation of violence that lasted decades; resulting in a rise in casualties, both British and Northern Irish.

At the time, it was the civil rights movement, not the Provos or the Loyalists, that were the most dominant political movement in Northern Ireland - Bloody Sunday ended that in a day - resulting in the domination of the political scene by terrorist factions such as the DUP and Sinn Fein that still exists.

The impact of Bloody Sunday was catastrophic for generations of Northern Irish.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

I think that the important phrase here has to be that it will/may save more lives than it costs. This is the problem of the 'more guns solution', it best equation situation is that it would reduce the number of people killed, rather than prevent a situation.

Of course its hypothetical in the extreme. You have to assume that a) those guns are available b) those who have access to them are sufficently trained to respond and don't panic c) that the police responding don't shoot the armed individual d) that the armed staff are themselves not killed first e) that the armed individuals don't shoot the wrong people (given the panic)

The last two are significant. When we look at the background of these crimes, we see that they're planned and orchestrated by the perpetrators. Likely as not they'd start with eliminating the armed teacher / staff first (as it will likely be well known who at the school is an armed response trainee).

Plus they'd need to obtain those weapons following the incident. Handguns aren't really ideal, as most mass shootings tend to involve rifles, and assault weapons - and in a number of cases body armour. So realistically you're going to need to have Combat grade hardware locked up in the school, with ammo - Which is problematic in its own right

When we look at the Colombine shootings, those kids were prepaired, heavily armed and in possession of explosives, and followed a pattern of attack. They didn't just start shooting randomly.

Plus the entire place was in chaos of panic with kids running, hiding etc. Thats a very dangerous situation to be armed in.

The NRA based solutions aren't particually well thought out; and its not common sense when you think about it. The solution to tragedy of mass shootings is to at best reduce the number of kids killed in a school shooting.

Its a false arguement, because it ignores the contextual variables of the situation.

Of course you could make it illegal for anyone under 21 to own guns. Its odd that in many states you can own a military grade weapon, before you're trusted to be able to drink a beer.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

I think part of the good Friday agreement should have also been an amnesty for those who fired on Bloody Sunday - and an independent inquiry. Same as for the IRA, UVF UFF, INLA etc. Same rules apply.

I don't see the Good Friday as protecting the IRA, but protecting the ordinary people of Northern Ireland who were caught between the British, The Provos and the Loyalist Terrorist. In the end, it was for them, not the IRA or UVF, Sinn Fien or DUP etc that the Good Friday Agreement served.

The people who lived through the troubles, without picking up guns or bombs, and their kids. The others who benefited, were just necessary sacrifice.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Not sure what's communist or even left wing about right-on rabid hipster authoritarianism.

Also, I note that one "lawmaker" does not a state make.

Having fixed that for you, I agree that the actual suggestion is totally bonkers :-)

Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune)