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 Kermit8  Hevon 12 Oct 17 12.35pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
What you are talking about is objectivity I think......Insomuch as a person can remain objective I think you have a point. But everyone has an angle...even if they are being as objective as possible. Just by a person's political beliefs and allegiances it's impossible not to have a bias. But remaining as objective as possible is valuable.....Some of us can do it for somethings but not others....the people who can for everything are on a kind of zen. But for politics it's better than the alternative. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Oct 2017 12.25pm) Hindsight is wonderful but that march in London back in 2002 - nearly 1.5million - it wasn't about bias nor politically anti-right or left, everyone wanted Saddam dead or out, it was about the fairly obvious (to us) projected sh1tstorm that the US was about to unleash in the future on the back of lies and mischievous policy. They knew it too. They just didn't care. The US needs conflict to keep its wheels turning.
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Stirlingsays  12 Oct 17 12.43pm |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
Hindsight is wonderful but that march in London back in 2002 - nearly 1.5million - it wasn't about bias nor politically anti-right or left, everyone wanted Saddam dead or out, it was about the fairly obvious (to us) projected sh1tstorm that the US was about to unleash in the future on the back of lies and mischievous policy. They knew it too. They just didn't care. The US needs conflict to keep its wheels turning. Yeah, but do you seriously think policy should change because people protest march? We already have parties dancing to the tune of any bad media reaction to policies....it's daft already. 1.8 million isn't anything when compared to how many people voted for Blair...though obviously far more than that were against the policy than protest marched. Should governmental policy just become about how popular or not a particular policy is? That's an interesting debate and if I'm honest something I'd have to think about but my initial reaction would be no......not with this type of democracy we have now.....a majority elect a particular set of arseholes for a time period.....and while you get to protest....they ultimately get what they push through during that time.....Could we have a better system...I think so...but that's a different question.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 12 Oct 17 12.54pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Yeah, but do you seriously think policy should change because people protest march? We already have parties dancing to the tune of any bad media reaction to policies....it's daft already. 1.8 million isn't anything when compared to how many people voted for Blair...though obviously far more than that were against the policy than protest marched. Should governmental policy just become about how popular or not a particular policy is? That's an interesting debate and if I'm honest something I'd have to think about but my initial reaction would be no......not with this type of democracy we have now.....a majority elect a particular set of arseholes for a time period.....and while you get to protest....they ultimately get what they push through during that time.....Could we have a better system...I think so...but that's a different question. Weren't the poll tax riots an example of helping to affect change? Edited by nickgusset (12 Oct 2017 12.55pm)
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 12 Oct 17 12.57pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Yeah, but do you seriously think policy should change because people protest march? We already have parties dancing to the tune of any bad media reaction to policies....it's daft already. 1.8 million isn't anything when compared to how many people voted for Blair...though obviously far more than that were against the policy than protest marched. Should governmental policy just become about how popular or not a particular policy is? That's an interesting debate and if I'm honest something I'd have to think about but my initial reaction would be no......not with this type of democracy we have now.....a majority elect a particular set of arseholes for a time period.....and while you get to protest....they ultimately get what they push through during that time.....Could we have a better system...I think so...but that's a different question. Single biggest protest in UK history, yeah I think governments should pay attention to that, if they consider themselves democracies. But people make a mistake of thinking that protesting changes anything - half the UK could protest, and the government wouldn't change its position (ok hyperbole). We need a democratic system, where governments are accountable to the people, not just a percentage of the populace that they pander to.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 12 Oct 17 12.58pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Weren't the poll tax riots an example of helping to affect change? Edited by nickgusset (12 Oct 2017 12.55pm) Well when its not peaceful, and it costs money and there is direct action and civil disobedience, then governments start to pay attention.
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 Hrolf The Ganger 12 Oct 17 12.58pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Weren't the poll tax riots an example of helping to affect change? Edited by nickgusset (12 Oct 2017 12.55pm) The poll tax riots were a bunch of unemployed layabouts kicking off because they might actually have to pay for something. It was a purely political protest and the response was also political.
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| Kermit8 Hevon 12 Oct 17 1.12pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
The poll tax riots were a bunch of unemployed layabouts kicking off because they might actually have to pay for something. It was a purely political protest and the response was also political. Because back in 1990 the way it worked Mr Singleton with no kids on £11k a year in his small flat was paying the same to the local authority for whatnot as 5 member family Mr Rich on £30k a year in his 4 bed detached and they both lived in the same street. And Mrs Rich was in trouble. She looked after the young kids, had no income apart from housekeeping, but another Poll Tax bill kept landing on the doorstep addressed to her. Then the Tories and their new laws started jailing people who literally couldn't pay and the rest is history. Bye, bye Margaret. Edited by Kermit8 (12 Oct 2017 1.14pm)
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| Stirlingsays 12 Oct 17 1.13pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Single biggest protest in UK history, yeah I think governments should pay attention to that, if they consider themselves democracies. But people make a mistake of thinking that protesting changes anything - half the UK could protest, and the government wouldn't change its position (ok hyperbole). We need a democratic system, where governments are accountable to the people, not just a percentage of the populace that they pander to. I'm not a person who thinks that policy should be changed due to the size of a protest necessarily.....and like I say, far more voted for Blair after these invasions than protested him. I do agree with your second paragraph though. I've long thought that our current version of democracy is out of date.....We don't need this large political class of elites meeting in a large expensive building....like you say, pandering to their particular section of society. A lot of this can be shifted online. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Oct 2017 1.14pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 12 Oct 17 1.14pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
The poll tax riots were a bunch of unemployed layabouts kicking off because they might actually have to pay for something. It was a purely political protest and the response was also political. Paragraph 1. Based on what?
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| Stirlingsays 12 Oct 17 1.16pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Well when its not peaceful, and it costs money and there is direct action and civil disobedience, then governments start to pay attention. That's not a good thing though.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Park Road  12 Oct 17 1.26pm |
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From an Afghans perspective about foreign policy to blame or not and this person should know
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 12 Oct 17 1.36pm |
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Originally posted by Park Road
From an Afghans perspective about foreign policy to blame or not and this person should know Interesting read. It doesn't address the power vacuum that ISIS et al were able to fill that was a direct result of foreign policy though.
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