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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 Ouzo Dan  Behind you 07 Jun 16 2.26pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
I'm in the out camp, and I'd say I'm pretty left wing. Duly noted good sir, I shall amend my comment.
The mountains are calling & I must go. |
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nickgusset  Shizzlehurst 07 Jun 16 2.33pm |
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2 sides of the leave / remain argument both equally valid (That's why I can't make my mind up!):
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| npn Crowborough 07 Jun 16 2.50pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
2 sides of the leave / remain argument both equally valid (That's why I can't make my mind up!):
Quite, and this is what winds me up so much about the Remain campaign. They are playing it like there is no valid reason to leave unless you're a xenophobic, racist, little-englander. There are reasons to leave, and good ones, just as there are also good reasons to stay. I just wish both sides would acknowledge that and address the issues and weigh them up truthfully, so us ignorant punters have a full and accurate view on which to base our decision.
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| Superfly The sun always shines in Catford 07 Jun 16 3.01pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
I'm in the out camp, and I'd say I'm pretty left wing. Another leftie voting out here (partly for the reasons you stated Ouzo)
Lend me a Tenor 31 May to 3 June 2017 John McIntosh Arts Centre with Superfly in the chorus |
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Y Ddraig Goch  In The Crowd 07 Jun 16 3.28pm |
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Originally posted by since1953
I listened to David Cameron's speech yesterday (I think it was at the Oval cricket ground) and he talked about staying in a "reformed" EU. It seems to me that when he tried to change something in our favour he returned home with his trousers around his ankles and a smacked bottom. That was the moment I stopped being a certain remain. They showed utter contempt for the UK. Still don't know which way I will vote though (if at all)
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| johnfirewall 07 Jun 16 3.33pm |
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Amusing that people pick and choose whose opinions are valid. One meme listed selected businessmen and politicians as the trusted voices of Remain while portraying Leave as a bunch of megalomaniacs exemplified by Boris, Putin and Trump. It's not like there's anyone else in power looking after their own interests. Conversely to the situation of jobs being freed up with reduction in migration, you'll get a load of MEPs flooding the market. Of course it's taken for granted that such politicians have good intentions to start with. An assumption made by the left who deem it preferable to have these faceless individuals maintain power over the democratically elected Tory government.
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 07 Jun 16 3.45pm |
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Originally posted by johnfirewall
Amusing that people pick and choose whose opinions are valid. One meme listed selected businessmen and politicians as the trusted voices of Remain while portraying Leave as a bunch of megalomaniacs exemplified by Boris, Putin and Trump. It's not like there's anyone else in power looking after their own interests. Conversely to the situation of jobs being freed up with reduction in migration, you'll get a load of MEPs flooding the market. Of course it's taken for granted that such politicians have good intentions to start with. An assumption made by the left who deem it preferable to have these faceless individuals maintain power over the democratically elected Tory government. Unless they undemocratically committed election fraud of course.
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| johnfirewall 07 Jun 16 4.13pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Unless they undemocratically committed election fraud of course. Plenty of questionable behaviour on both sides of the EU referendum, but personally the deception employed in publishing misleading websites and 'how to vote' forms is a greater crime than failure to declare expenses for a bus (again on both sides) or even the £9m worth of leaflets we paid for, although those area bigger scandal than the immorality of DC's investments if you want to chuck those in too.
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 07 Jun 16 4.16pm |
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Originally posted by johnfirewall
Plenty of questionable behaviour on both sides of the EU referendum, but personally the deception employed in publishing misleading websites and 'how to vote' forms is a greater crime than failure to declare expenses for a bus (again on both sides) or even the £9m worth of leaflets we paid for, although those area bigger scandal than the immorality of DC's investments if you want to chuck those in too. I've covered the difference between the battlebus expenses in the relevant thread.
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| silvertop Portishead 07 Jun 16 4.26pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
2 sides of the leave / remain argument both equally valid (That's why I can't make my mind up!):
I have just read both. The remain arguments seem pretty unarguable to me. However, the leave arguments are overwhelmingly emotional tosh. The EU panders to large corporate; and a post EU Britain dominated by the Tory right would not? However, the one argument that I had, in the haze of misinformation, overlooked was the trade point. Being able to freely trade with anyone we like on whatever terms we can agree may actually be a liberating event. Also, is it true that we charge African importers an EU set 6.5% tariff? That is scandalous. I am not wholly convinced by this alone; this may have to be a necessary evil to staying in. The thought of a right of Tory/UKIP dominated political landscape following an out vote fills me with absolute disgust. However, I accept that it does murky the waters.
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| johnfirewall 07 Jun 16 4.49pm |
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Originally posted by silvertop
The thought of a right of Tory/UKIP dominated political landscape following an out vote fills me with absolute disgust. However, I accept that it does murky the waters. You can't really argue against the fact that a vote to remain endorses the authority of a higher power equally susceptible to corruption and lobbying from corporate interests. It's implied that a larger entity can't be bought by the likes Murdock etc. as the Tories can, but even without TTIP in the equation that is clearly not true. Is it harder to get to FIFA or UEFA than the FA?
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 07 Jun 16 4.50pm |
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Originally posted by silvertop
I have just read both. The remain arguments seem pretty unarguable to me. However, the leave arguments are overwhelmingly emotional tosh. The EU panders to large corporate; and a post EU Britain dominated by the Tory right would not? However, the one argument that I had, in the haze of misinformation, overlooked was the trade point. Being able to freely trade with anyone we like on whatever terms we can agree may actually be a liberating event. Also, is it true that we charge African importers an EU set 6.5% tariff? That is scandalous. I am not wholly convinced by this alone; this may have to be a necessary evil to staying in. The thought of a right of Tory/UKIP dominated political landscape following an out vote fills me with absolute disgust. However, I accept that it does murky the waters. Yep, but they can be voted out.
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