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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 13 Jan 16 1.22pm | |
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Quote The White Horse at 13 Jan 2016 1.08pm
Quote nickgusset at 13 Jan 2016 9.23am
You speak about the media, of course they are going to do everything to make sure that the message is distorted - case in point making so much fuss about the reshuffle and almost goading more right wing labour mp's into besmirching Corbyn's character in the press. Assuming you're entirely right on this, will this stop because you and other lefties are complaining about it? I've just watched the Daily Politics, Laura Kuenssberg and Andrew Neil are laughing at the accusations of bias. I'm not bothered by it to be honest, I'd guess most people aren't. The more the left whine, the less I care to be honest. What you've done is highlighted an anti-Left force, but shown no evidence it's going to be reduced. On that evidence, surely you'd expect that force to win out? At the moment birds in a tree above my car repeatedly sh*t on it. If I don't move the car or move the birds, how can I expect things to change? History will just repeat. Quote nickgusset at 13 Jan 2016 9.23am
I do think that Corbyn's ideas would lead to the betterment of the country. When asked about what Corbyn wants to do, without being told it is a Corbyn idea, then many people actually agree with it! Obviously left-wing ideas would lead to the betterment of the country, I basically agree with 90% of what Corbyn says. But overwhelmingly the public do not. 7 out of 10 voters would consider voting Labour (compared to 6 out of 10 for the Tories) but if there was a general election tomorrow, only 3 in 10 say they actually would vote Labour whilst 4 in 10 say they would vote Tory. Essentially Labour's conversion rate among potential voters at the moment is 3/7, while the Tories' is 4/6. I couldn't disagree more with your claim that voters are erroneously intending to vote against Corbyn in spite of him agreeing with them. Many of Corbyn's opinions fly in the face of public opinion. The public want less immigration, not more. The public want Trident, not unilateral disarmament. The public wanted to bomb Syria, not stay out of it. If Corbyn wants the public to vote for him in 2020, the best thing he can do is keep quiet about all of the above, not repeat it in public in the hope that people support him but haven't realised. I agree with you, sort of.
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The White Horse 13 Jan 16 3.07pm | |
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Quote nickgusset at 13 Jan 2016 1.22pm
I agree with you, sort of. Could you name any areas of public dissatisfaction that weren't already given a 5 year go by Ed Miliband that you think Corbyn will lead on? I'd say the only popular subjects Ed Miliband didn't touch were those where the public has quite a right-wing view, so Corbyn will leave well alone. Quote nickgusset at 13 Jan 2016 1.22pm
He is still learning on the job and one hopes that is allowed the chance to improve. I don't think it's infighting to give your honest view about dire leadership. I'll support him by voting for him and encouraging others to do so but you can't polish a turd and I'd say there are 200 odd better options within the Labour Party, a dozen or so of whom are substantially more capable. As yet, I've not heard of Labour MPs voting against the Labour whip. It doesn't show gumption to support policies supported by a minority of the public, it shows a basic failure to represent your constituents. Dozens of them will pay the price in 2020.
"The fox has his den. The bee has his hive. The stoat, has, uh... his stoat-hole... but only man chooses to make his nest in an investment opportunity.” Stewart Lee |
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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 13 Jan 16 4.49pm | |
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Quote The White Horse at 13 Jan 2016 3.07pm
Quote nickgusset at 13 Jan 2016 1.22pm
I agree with you, sort of. Could you name any areas of public dissatisfaction that weren't already given a 5 year go by Ed Miliband that you think Corbyn will lead on? I'd say the only popular subjects Ed Miliband didn't touch were those where the public has quite a right-wing view, so Corbyn will leave well alone. Quote nickgusset at 13 Jan 2016 1.22pm
He is still learning on the job and one hopes that is allowed the chance to improve. I don't think it's infighting to give your honest view about dire leadership. I'll support him by voting for him and encouraging others to do so but you can't polish a turd and I'd say there are 200 odd better options within the Labour Party, a dozen or so of whom are substantially more capable. As yet, I've not heard of Labour MPs voting against the Labour whip. It doesn't show gumption to support policies supported by a minority of the public, it shows a basic failure to represent your constituents. Dozens of them will pay the price in 2020.
I'd say that renationalisation, the health service and social housing are high on people's agendas. These are 3 issues that Labour should focus on - if the press allow it.
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We are goin up! Coulsdon 13 Jan 16 4.53pm | |
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"Learning on the job". He's had how long as an MP? You'd have thought at some point in that time he'd have given some thought about what his vision would be and how he'd run his party. Or maybe he's only fit for a debating society...
The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money. |
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Kermit8 Hevon 13 Jan 16 4.58pm | |
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This is all rather pointless. It won't matter what he does he won't get anymore than 30%ish of the electoral vote so the next gov is a Tory shoe-in. He will then resign.
Big chest and massive boobs |
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npn Crowborough 13 Jan 16 5.21pm | |
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The plain fact is that he's just not very good as a leader. Clearly there is a leftward shift in the membership (hence his result in the leadership election), which is fine, but you then need to have a team in place that can sell that vision to the wider electorate. Corbyn just ain't it! There is a trait of many on the left particularly (not a dig, more an observation - there are many unpleasant traits on the right as well), which you can see on this board as well as in politics in general, that if you disagree with them you were too dim to understand their argument. That doesn't help you at the ballot box. If they haven't understood your argument (which is doubtful) then you need to explain it better, not imply they are bumbling idiots. I understand the arguments (I like to think) and I agree with some, and disagree with many. Belittling my and my opinions will not change them, it will merely make me not wish to listen to you any more. Couple that with the perceived hypocrisy of his closest allies (Abbott springs to mind, but that may well be bias because I despise her) that says anyone not backing him is disloyal, despite his long and proud record of defying the Labour whip from the backbenches at every possible turn (something seen by his supporters as principled when done by him). He may serve a purpose for the Labour left by pushing the agenda of the party leftwards (in the same way that UKIP and the Greens served a purpose by bringing immigration and environmental issues to the fore for the main parties) but if Corbyn is a potential Prime Minister, then I am the answer to our goal-scoring problems!
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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 13 Jan 16 5.42pm | |
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Quote npn at 13 Jan 2016 5.21pm
The plain fact is that he's just not very good as a leader. Clearly there is a leftward shift in the membership (hence his result in the leadership election), which is fine, but you then need to have a team in place that can sell that vision to the wider electorate. Corbyn just ain't it! There is a trait of many on the left particularly (not a dig, more an observation - there are many unpleasant traits on the right as well), which you can see on this board as well as in politics in general, that if you disagree with them you were too dim to understand their argument. That doesn't help you at the ballot box. If they haven't understood your argument (which is doubtful) then you need to explain it better, not imply they are bumbling idiots. I understand the arguments (I like to think) and I agree with some, and disagree with many. Belittling my and my opinions will not change them, it will merely make me not wish to listen to you any more. Couple that with the perceived hypocrisy of his closest allies (Abbott springs to mind, but that may well be bias because I despise her) that says anyone not backing him is disloyal, despite his long and proud record of defying the Labour whip from the backbenches at every possible turn (something seen by his supporters as principled when done by him). He may serve a purpose for the Labour left by pushing the agenda of the party leftwards (in the same way that UKIP and the Greens served a purpose by bringing immigration and environmental issues to the fore for the main parties) but if Corbyn is a potential Prime Minister, then I am the answer to our goal-scoring problems! Bet you're better than Bamford.
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We are goin up! Coulsdon 13 Jan 16 5.53pm | |
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Quote npn at 13 Jan 2016 5.21pm
The plain fact is that he's just not very good as a leader. Clearly there is a leftward shift in the membership (hence his result in the leadership election), which is fine, but you then need to have a team in place that can sell that vision to the wider electorate. Corbyn just ain't it! There is a trait of many on the left particularly (not a dig, more an observation - there are many unpleasant traits on the right as well), which you can see on this board as well as in politics in general, that if you disagree with them you were too dim to understand their argument. That doesn't help you at the ballot box. If they haven't understood your argument (which is doubtful) then you need to explain it better, not imply they are bumbling idiots. Couple that with the perceived hypocrisy of his closest allies (Abbott springs to mind, but that may well be bias because I despise her) that says anyone not backing him is disloyal, despite his long and proud record of defying the Labour whip from the backbenches at every possible turn (something seen by his supporters as principled when done by him). He may serve a purpose for the Labour left by pushing the agenda of the party leftwards (in the same way that UKIP and the Greens served a purpose by bringing immigration and environmental issues to the fore for the main parties) but if Corbyn is a potential Prime Minister, then I am the answer to our goal-scoring problems!
The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money. |
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matt_himself Matataland 13 Jan 16 9.56pm | |
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Quote Kermit8 at 13 Jan 2016 4.58pm
This is all rather pointless. It won't matter what he does he won't get anymore than 30%ish of the electoral vote so the next gov is a Tory shoe-in. He will then resign.
Who knows how things will work out. Edited by matt_himself (13 Jan 2016 10.07pm)
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 13 Jan 16 10.18pm | |
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Quote matt_himself at 13 Jan 2016 9.56pm
Quote Kermit8 at 13 Jan 2016 4.58pm
This is all rather pointless. It won't matter what he does he won't get anymore than 30%ish of the electoral vote so the next gov is a Tory shoe-in. He will then resign.
Who knows how things will work out. Edited by matt_himself (13 Jan 2016 10.07pm) You seem to like changing your posts completely. I recall you professing that you loved me either on Friday or Saturday night, then removed it the next day. I presumed the ecstacy must have worn off.
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matt_himself Matataland 13 Jan 16 10.29pm | |
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Quote nickgusset at 13 Jan 2016 10.18pm
Quote matt_himself at 13 Jan 2016 9.56pm
Quote Kermit8 at 13 Jan 2016 4.58pm
This is all rather pointless. It won't matter what he does he won't get anymore than 30%ish of the electoral vote so the next gov is a Tory shoe-in. He will then resign.
Who knows how things will work out. Edited by matt_himself (13 Jan 2016 10.07pm) You seem to like changing your posts completely. I recall you professing that you loved me either on Friday or Saturday night, then removed it the next day. I presumed the ecstacy must have worn off. I thought you weren't talking to me. You have said it enough times.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 13 Jan 16 10.30pm | |
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Quote matt_himself at 13 Jan 2016 10.29pm
Quote nickgusset at 13 Jan 2016 10.18pm
Quote matt_himself at 13 Jan 2016 9.56pm
Quote Kermit8 at 13 Jan 2016 4.58pm
This is all rather pointless. It won't matter what he does he won't get anymore than 30%ish of the electoral vote so the next gov is a Tory shoe-in. He will then resign.
Who knows how things will work out. Edited by matt_himself (13 Jan 2016 10.07pm) You seem to like changing your posts completely. I recall you professing that you loved me either on Friday or Saturday night, then removed it the next day. I presumed the ecstacy must have worn off. I thought you weren't talking to me. You have said it enough times.
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