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Stirlingsays 18 Feb 22 6.18pm
Originally posted by silvertop After being persuaded by heavily financed anti campaigns from the very 2 parties who gain from FPTP. I think I agree with the implication that there should really be a cap on campaign spending. Both sides in a referendum should have the same spending. Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Feb 2022 6.19pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

18 Feb 22 6.18pm

Originally posted by silvertop

After being persuaded by heavily financed anti campaigns from the very 2 parties who gain from FPTP.

I think I agree with the implication that there should really be a cap on campaign spending.

Both sides in a referendum should have the same spending.

Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Feb 2022 6.19pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 18 Feb 22 6.33pm
Originally posted by Badger11 PR sounds fair until the reality hits home. Imagine a hung parliament on one side you have a coalition of Labour / / Lib Dems SNP / Greens and on the other side you have Tories, Ulster Unionists and the Brexit party. In addition to that you have a few independents e.g. Monster Raving Loony Party and some extreme left and right wing MPs. In order to form a government Labour has agreed to Indyref2 with the SNP and banned nuclear power and coal with the Greens. Meanwhile the Tories are selling their soul to the DUP and the Brexit party. With neither side able to form a government they both go after the independents and try and make deals even with the nasty parties. This happens in Israel where the small extreme religious groups seems to hold a large amount of power. PR gives everybody a say unfortunately you may not like what some of the more extreme ones have to say. Our current system maybe flawed but at least it keeps out the real nasty parties Edited by Badger11 (18 Feb 2022 5.44pm) Debatable I recognise the flaws of PR, and certainly smaller parties having unduly large influence is the biggest one of those, but I still think it’s infinitely preferable to our current system where a party get a mandate to do whatever they want because 40% of the country voted for them. If more compromise is required in parliament as a result, I don’t see that as a bad thing.
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 18 Feb 22 6.33pm

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Originally posted by Badger11

PR sounds fair until the reality hits home. Imagine a hung parliament on one side you have a coalition of Labour / / Lib Dems SNP / Greens and on the other side you have Tories, Ulster Unionists and the Brexit party. In addition to that you have a few independents e.g. Monster Raving Loony Party and some extreme left and right wing MPs.

In order to form a government Labour has agreed to Indyref2 with the SNP and banned nuclear power and coal with the Greens. Meanwhile the Tories are selling their soul to the DUP and the Brexit party.

With neither side able to form a government they both go after the independents and try and make deals even with the nasty parties.

This happens in Israel where the small extreme religious groups seems to hold a large amount of power.

PR gives everybody a say unfortunately you may not like what some of the more extreme ones have to say.

Our current system maybe flawed but at least it keeps out the real nasty parties

Edited by Badger11 (18 Feb 2022 5.44pm)

Debatable

I recognise the flaws of PR, and certainly smaller parties having unduly large influence is the biggest one of those, but I still think it’s infinitely preferable to our current system where a party get a mandate to do whatever they want because 40% of the country voted for them.

If more compromise is required in parliament as a result, I don’t see that as a bad thing.

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georgenorman 18 Feb 22 6.34pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 I have to smile at being called a communist. Sorry to disappoint, but I voted green...... What's the difference.
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georgenorman

18 Feb 22 6.34pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

I have to smile at being called a communist.

Sorry to disappoint, but I voted green......

What's the difference.

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cryrst The garden of England 18 Feb 22 7.15pm
Originally posted by silvertop "Don't know" - obvs! And you can bet your bottom dollar the "don't knows" who voted in the referendum voted leave! BTW, what have you seen to make you one of the positive 7% (and diminishing)? My point is that 52% don't see a negative. Read the figures you posted again. Only 37% say its negative. So the 7% is the red herring. Add the first three up. Edited by cryrst (18 Feb 2022 7.17pm)
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cryrst

The garden of England 18 Feb 22 7.15pm

Originally posted by silvertop

"Don't know" - obvs!

And you can bet your bottom dollar the "don't knows" who voted in the referendum voted leave!

BTW, what have you seen to make you one of the positive 7% (and diminishing)?

My point is that 52% don't see a negative. Read the figures you posted again. Only 37% say its negative. So the 7% is the red herring.
Add the first three up.

Edited by cryrst (18 Feb 2022 7.17pm)

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cryrst The garden of England 18 Feb 22 7.20pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow Debatable I recognise the flaws of PR, and certainly smaller parties having unduly large influence is the biggest one of those, but I still think it’s infinitely preferable to our current system where a party get a mandate to do whatever they want because 40% of the country voted for them. If more compromise is required in parliament as a result, I don’t see that as a bad thing. Blame apathy for the results, not the system. If people can't be Naffed to vote then you get the result from the people who can be Naffed. Not hard to vote even by post.
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cryrst

The garden of England 18 Feb 22 7.20pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Debatable

If more compromise is required in parliament as a result, I don’t see that as a bad thing.

Blame apathy for the results, not the system.
If people can't be Naffed to vote then you get the result from the people who can be Naffed. Not hard to vote even by post.

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georgenorman 18 Feb 22 7.23pm
Originally posted by cryrst Blame apathy for the results, not the system. If people can't be Naffed to vote then you get the result from the people who can be Naffed. Not hard to vote even by post. Not hard to carry out electoral fraud by postal votes as we have seen in certain Labour held constituencies.
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georgenorman

18 Feb 22 7.23pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Blame apathy for the results, not the system.
If people can't be Naffed to vote then you get the result from the people who can be Naffed. Not hard to vote even by post.

Not hard to carry out electoral fraud by postal votes as we have seen in certain Labour held constituencies.

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steeleye20 Croydon 18 Feb 22 8.02pm
Originally posted by georgenorman Not hard to carry out electoral fraud by postal votes as we have seen in certain Labour held constituencies. The justice secretary admits there were only 3 cases of electoral fraud in the December 2019 election. Not in labour held constituences either. The Electoral Commission warned young people, people from ethnic minorities, women and the elderly were most likely to be penalised by the new legislation.
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steeleye20

Croydon 18 Feb 22 8.02pm

Originally posted by georgenorman

Not hard to carry out electoral fraud by postal votes as we have seen in certain Labour held constituencies.

The justice secretary admits there were only 3 cases of electoral fraud in the December 2019 election.

Not in labour held constituences either.

The Electoral Commission warned young people, people from ethnic minorities, women and the elderly were most likely to be penalised by the new legislation.

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georgenorman 18 Feb 22 8.11pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 The justice secretary admits there were only 3 cases of electoral fraud in the December 2019 election. Not in labour held constituences either. The Electoral Commission warned young people, people from ethnic minorities, women and the elderly were most likely to be penalised by the new legislation. Non-communists widely regard the Electoral Commission report as a whitewash. Postal Vote electoral fraud is widespread in certain communities.
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georgenorman

18 Feb 22 8.11pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

The justice secretary admits there were only 3 cases of electoral fraud in the December 2019 election.

Not in labour held constituences either.

The Electoral Commission warned young people, people from ethnic minorities, women and the elderly were most likely to be penalised by the new legislation.

Non-communists widely regard the Electoral Commission report as a whitewash. Postal Vote electoral fraud is widespread in certain communities.

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steeleye20 Croydon 18 Feb 22 8.13pm
Originally posted by georgenorman Non-communists widely regard the Electoral Commission report as a whitewash. Postal Vote electoral fraud is widespread in certain communities. You are in a bad place.
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steeleye20

Croydon 18 Feb 22 8.13pm

Originally posted by georgenorman

Non-communists widely regard the Electoral Commission report as a whitewash. Postal Vote electoral fraud is widespread in certain communities.

You are in a bad place.

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Stirlingsays 18 Feb 22 8.14pm
Originally posted by georgenorman Non-communists widely regard the Electoral Commission report as a whitewash. Postal Vote electoral fraud is widespread in certain communities. The people on the electoral commission have proven themselves terrible in my view. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

18 Feb 22 8.14pm

Originally posted by georgenorman

Non-communists widely regard the Electoral Commission report as a whitewash. Postal Vote electoral fraud is widespread in certain communities.

The people on the electoral commission have proven themselves terrible in my view.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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silvertop Portishead 18 Feb 22 8.42pm
Originally posted by cryrst My point is that 52% don't see a negative. Read the figures you posted again. Only 37% say its negative. So the 7% is the red herring. Add the first three up. Edited by cryrst (18 Feb 2022 7.17pm) Oh dear try again. 65% are either a bit dissatisfied or a lot dissatisfied.
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silvertop

Portishead 18 Feb 22 8.42pm

Originally posted by cryrst

My point is that 52% don't see a negative. Read the figures you posted again. Only 37% say its negative. So the 7% is the red herring.
Add the first three up.

Edited by cryrst (18 Feb 2022 7.17pm)

Oh dear try again.

65% are either a bit dissatisfied or a lot dissatisfied.

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Teddy Eagle 18 Feb 22 8.48pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 The justice secretary admits there were only 3 cases of electoral fraud in the December 2019 election. Not in labour held constituences either. The Electoral Commission warned young people, people from ethnic minorities, women and the elderly were most likely to be penalised by the new legislation. How about fraud in Tower Hamlets? Rather more than 3 cases there.
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Teddy Eagle

18 Feb 22 8.48pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

The justice secretary admits there were only 3 cases of electoral fraud in the December 2019 election.

Not in labour held constituences either.

The Electoral Commission warned young people, people from ethnic minorities, women and the elderly were most likely to be penalised by the new legislation.

How about fraud in Tower Hamlets? Rather more than 3 cases there.

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