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 steeleye20  Croydon 18 Feb 22 5.06pm |
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I have to smile at being called a communist. Sorry to disappoint, but I voted green......
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| EverybodyDannsNow SE19 18 Feb 22 5.06pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
This is always a valid criticism of FPTP. However, just looking at Italy there are obvious flaws with proportional representation, though it's obviously fairer. There are probably better compromising alternatives but the country rejected one of them. It's like political philosophies, in practice they all have flaws. Oh for sure, PR is a long way from perfect, but it's far more 'democratic' than our system.
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| steeleye20 Croydon 18 Feb 22 5.10pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
I have to smile at being called a communist. Sorry to disappoint, but I voted green......
Mind you I could always be a communist in my spare time. Or even a green communist. I'll sleep on it.
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| Badger11 Beckenham 18 Feb 22 5.28pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Mind you I could always be a communist in my spare time. Or even a green communist. I'll sleep on it. Water melon? green on the outside red on the inside.
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ASCPFC  Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 18 Feb 22 5.32pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Mind you I could always be a communist in my spare time. Or even a green communist. I'll sleep on it. The funny thing about communism or the far left is that it is unlikely they would follow a diversity or green agenda. Probably all uniforms, censorship, industry and conformity - or else. They also wouldn't be pro EU, more likely pro themselves and fellow communists. This is one of today's conundrums. Everything is always anti far right but pretty obviously, far left is basically the same in practice.
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| Badger11 Beckenham 18 Feb 22 5.44pm |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
The fact we still use FPTP means we're already one of the least democratic;
Nearly every other country would end up with a shade of blue.
PR sounds fair until the reality hits home. Imagine a hung parliament on one side you have a coalition of Labour / / Lib Dems SNP / Greens and on the other side you have Tories, Ulster Unionists and the Brexit party. In addition to that you have a few independents e.g. Monster Raving Loony Party and some extreme left and right wing MPs. In order to form a government Labour has agreed to Indyref2 with the SNP and banned nuclear power and coal with the Greens. Meanwhile the Tories are selling their soul to the DUP and the Brexit party. With neither side able to form a government they both go after the independents and try and make deals even with the nasty parties. This happens in Israel where the small extreme religious groups seems to hold a large amount of power. PR gives everybody a say unfortunately you may not like what some of the more extreme ones have to say. Our current system maybe flawed but at least it keeps out the real nasty parties. Edited by Badger11 (18 Feb 2022 5.44pm)
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| Stirlingsays 18 Feb 22 5.49pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
PR sounds fair until the reality hits home. Imagine a hung parliament on one side you have a coalition of Labour / / Lib Dems SNP / Greens and on the other side you have Tories, Ulster Unionists and the Brexit party. In addition to that you have a few independents e.g. Monster Raving Loony Party and some extreme left and right wing MPs. In order to form a government Labour has agreed to Indyref2 with the SNP and banned nuclear power and coal with the Greens. Meanwhile the Tories are selling their soul to the DUP and the Brexit party. With neither side able to form a government they both go after the independents and try and make deals even with the nasty parties. This happens in Israel where the small extreme religious groups seems to hold a large amount of power. PR gives everybody a say unfortunately you may not like what some of the more extreme ones have to say. Our current system maybe flawed but at least it keeps out the real nasty parties. Edited by Badger11 (18 Feb 2022 5.44pm) That isn't a democratic argument.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| silvertop Portishead 18 Feb 22 6.07pm |
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Originally posted by cryrst
Btw that's only 89%. "Don't know" - obvs! And you can bet your bottom dollar the "don't knows" who voted in the referendum voted leave! BTW, what have you seen to make you one of the positive 7% (and diminishing)?
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| Spiderman Horsham 18 Feb 22 6.07pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
Water melon? green on the outside red on the inside.
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Teddy Eagle  18 Feb 22 6.09pm |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
Oh for sure, PR is a long way from perfect, but it's far more 'democratic' than our system. Sounds like the UKIP argument. Under PR they'd have got 80 seats in 2015.
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| silvertop Portishead 18 Feb 22 6.10pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
This is always a valid criticism of FPTP. However, just looking at Italy there are obvious flaws with proportional representation, though it's obviously fairer. There are probably better compromising alternatives but the country rejected one of them. It's like political philosophies, in practice they all have flaws. After being persuaded by heavily financed anti campaigns from the very 2 parties who gain from FPTP.
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| silvertop Portishead 18 Feb 22 6.13pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
2016 - Referendum vote. Leave won. How many more votes do you want? 4 decisive elections in 3 years all delivered wins for the Leave side. If a major political party wants to make a manifesto promise to take us back into the EU if it wins, then let it make it. If a major political party or movement wants to campaign for another referendum on rejoining then let them do so. But the decision of 2016 has been confirmed via 3 separate electrical processes. There has to be a line in the sand over this, at least for the next couple of decades. To revisit it over and over does nothing other than cause even more division than we have at the moment. All delivered wins for sides that backed not raising the leave/remain subject again. Not the same at all. There has only been one referendum and that was an aeon ago where so much has changed since.
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