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The Dolphin 18 Feb 22 9.28am | |
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Bored witless now with people still banging on about how gad Brexit was/is and will be.
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silvertop Portishead 18 Feb 22 10.16am | |
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Originally posted by Matov
It was one of the primary reasons why I did not want any kind of formal deal done with the EU. Local solutions could have been put into place, along with a host of others as well, as opposed to a one size fits all arrangement which is absolutely ludicrous. Less than 2% of all UK exports actually crosses that particular border so it was utterly insignificant to the UK and given that the freedom of individual movement between the two countries pre-dated the EU by many decades, then that was never going to be an issue anyway. The only people ever putting in any kind of 'hard' border infrastructure was going to be the EU and its a complete myth for people to think there ever was custom-free trade between the two nations anyway with the Southern Irish already checking not only commercial vehicles but also private ones as well for things such as heating oil. NI has been allowed to hang in the ether by a political class who still wish for us to be tied into the EU. A 'good' deal for the UK never existed and it would have been far more honest to just admit that from the start rather than us being led down the garden path. The EU, and those driving its wider agenda, are not pragmatic people. Greeces inclusion in the single currency project is the prime example of that. The notion that we could sit down and deal with them is utterly ludicrous. You have just made a powerful argument for staying in...
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steeleye20 Croydon 18 Feb 22 11.15am | |
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Producing absurd economic figures from the Ministry of Silly Leave Walks won't help. Your primary trading arrangement especially as a little island on the edge of europe must be with nearest and biggest market. Relying on Australia it takes 3 weeks to get anything there. 20 billions in EU trade lost who knows how much the damage will be.
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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 18 Feb 22 11.40am | |
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The European Defence Forces are massing as we speak. Spear headed by Ireland's tanks.
Red and Blue Army! |
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Matov 18 Feb 22 12.06pm | |
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Originally posted by silvertop
You have just made a powerful argument for staying in...
If the EU had remained nothing more than a trading organisation to try and ensure the easy flow of goods between its members, then I suspect we would not be having this discussion. But its over-riding reason for being was as a political project. That is what we voted on and Leave won. It's done. Over. There are no more arguments for staying in. And to even think that is insanity.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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silvertop Portishead 18 Feb 22 12.59pm | |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Producing absurd economic figures from the Ministry of Silly Leave Walks won't help. Your primary trading arrangement especially as a little island on the edge of europe must be with nearest and biggest market. Relying on Australia it takes 3 weeks to get anything there. 20 billions in EU trade lost who knows how much the damage will be. Breath wasted. Other than the semi-moronic bottom-feeders who voted to leave to "say something" or attack the Tories or protest austerity or limit non-EU immigration, the vast swathe of Brexiteers voted to leave to oppose free movement from the EU. Most do not have the wherewithal to understand issues with trade, or are in protected pensions or are unemployable so didn't care. References to red tape, sovereignty, free markets, trade and the rest are almost always retrospective justifications. In saying this, I am aware that a lot of intelligent people voted for those very reasons at the time, are still firmly committed to the country going it alone, and many post on here. However, I genuinely believe they represent a minority of Brexiteers who are wholly nonplussed by a reduction in trade and an eventual, relative decline of this country's economy.
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steeleye20 Croydon 18 Feb 22 2.04pm | |
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'Tory MP says Brexit is benefiting her town because new bureaucracy is creating jobs'. Has to be Natalie Elphicke again (Tory MP for Dover). Brexit becoming ridiculous, the tories new policy of cutting red tape, which we know will get worse because of the tories themselves anyway, now will not benefit Dover. No, they want to swim in a sea of customs forms and petty officials, a kafka-esque society of endless bureaucracy which will create new jobs for pen-pushers while the economy goes hang. Have to admire all the hauliers how they keep going I don't know, I suspect many have given up.
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steeleye20 Croydon 18 Feb 22 2.23pm | |
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Originally posted by silvertop
Breath wasted. Other than the semi-moronic bottom-feeders who voted to leave to "say something" or attack the Tories or protest austerity or limit non-EU immigration, the vast swathe of Brexiteers voted to leave to oppose free movement from the EU. Most do not have the wherewithal to understand issues with trade, or are in protected pensions or are unemployable so didn't care. References to red tape, sovereignty, free markets, trade and the rest are almost always retrospective justifications. In saying this, I am aware that a lot of intelligent people voted for those very reasons at the time, are still firmly committed to the country going it alone, and many post on here. However, I genuinely believe they represent a minority of Brexiteers who are wholly nonplussed by a reduction in trade and an eventual, relative decline of this country's economy. Seconded. What of the 'brexit opportunities'? Jacob Rees-Mogg 'Look I'm in charge don't ask me, read The Sun'. Sir Keir Starmer - The silence is deafening For the lounge suite, tonight's star prize, Sir Keir, please tell us what the brexit opportunities you espouse are? Perhaps they need more encouragement, how about a drive-past 15 miles of queues at Dover waving their union jacks at frustrated transport hauliers.
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georgenorman 18 Feb 22 3.28pm | |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Seconded. What of the 'brexit opportunities'? Jacob Rees-Mogg 'Look I'm in charge don't ask me, read The Sun'. Sir Keir Starmer - The silence is deafening For the lounge suite, tonight's star prize, Sir Keir, please tell us what the brexit opportunities you espouse are? Perhaps they need more encouragement, how about a drive-past 15 miles of queues at Dover waving their union jacks at frustrated transport hauliers. I voted Leave primarily because the EU is not democratic - as often pointed pointed out by Tony Benn.
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nead1 18 Feb 22 3.35pm | |
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Perhaps you could enlarge? There is certainly an argument to say that its consensual decision making process amongst the Council makes it slow to come to a position. However, that doesn't appear to me to be undemocratic - perhaps I have missed something?
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georgenorman 18 Feb 22 3.38pm | |
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Originally posted by nead1
Perhaps you could enlarge? There is certainly an argument to say that its consensual decision making process amongst the Council makes it slow to come to a position. However, that doesn't appear to me to be undemocratic - perhaps I have missed something? MEPs and their parties cannot propose and enact EU laws. As the EU electorate cannot vote for the people that make the laws that govern them, it is clearly not democratic. Edited by georgenorman (18 Feb 2022 3.41pm)
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 18 Feb 22 3.56pm | |
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Originally posted by Matov
If the EU had remained nothing more than a trading organisation to try and ensure the easy flow of goods between its members, then I suspect we would not be having this discussion. But its over-riding reason for being was as a political project. That is what we voted on and Leave won. It's done. Over. There are no more arguments for staying in. And to even think that is insanity. Then you voted on a non issue. A problem imagined and promoted by Little Englanders. The EU was, and isn't, a "political project"! That some countries within the EU may independently decide upon closer alignment isn't the purpose of the EU, nor could it ever be imposed on us. We would never have agreed and people like me would have fought against it should it ever have been suggested. Beyond being a common trading area the purpose of the EU is to allow freedom of movement and the development of common standards which make life easier within the community, avoid duplication and allow for easier exports as receiving countries know what they are getting. It also gives its members a stronger voice at the big table of world affairs.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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