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Hoof Hearted 06 Jun 16 11.56am

Originally posted by Kermit8

Interesting development;

"Pro-Remain MPs are considering using their Commons majority to keep Britain inside the EU single market if there is a vote for Brexit, the BBC has learned.
The MPs fear a post-Brexit government might negotiate a limited free trade deal with the EU, which they say would damage the UK's economy.
There is a pro-Remain majority in the House of Commons of 454 MPs to 147.
A Vote Leave campaign spokesman said MPs will not be able to "defy the will of the electorate" on key issues.
The single market guarantees the free movement of goods, people, services and capital.
The BBC has learned pro-Remain MPs would use their voting power in the House of Commons to protect what they see as the economic benefits of a single market, which gives the UK access to 500 million consumers.
Staying inside the single market would mean Britain would have to keep its borders open to EU workers and continue paying into EU coffers.

They say it would be legitimate for MPs to push for the UK to stay in the single market because the Leave campaign has refused to spell out what trading relationship it wants the UK to have with the EU in the future."

BBC

Any MP of any political hue considering this action and agreeing with it is committing political suicide defying the will of the people.

The "interesting development" is the fact that Remain are now so rattled by the tidal wave of support for the Leave campaign that they have to resort to underhand tactics to get their way.

 

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EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 06 Jun 16 12.00pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by Kermit8

Interesting development;

"Pro-Remain MPs are considering using their Commons majority to keep Britain inside the EU single market if there is a vote for Brexit, the BBC has learned.
The MPs fear a post-Brexit government might negotiate a limited free trade deal with the EU, which they say would damage the UK's economy.
There is a pro-Remain majority in the House of Commons of 454 MPs to 147.
A Vote Leave campaign spokesman said MPs will not be able to "defy the will of the electorate" on key issues.
The single market guarantees the free movement of goods, people, services and capital.
The BBC has learned pro-Remain MPs would use their voting power in the House of Commons to protect what they see as the economic benefits of a single market, which gives the UK access to 500 million consumers.
Staying inside the single market would mean Britain would have to keep its borders open to EU workers and continue paying into EU coffers.

They say it would be legitimate for MPs to push for the UK to stay in the single market because the Leave campaign has refused to spell out what trading relationship it wants the UK to have with the EU in the future."

BBC

I wouldn't call MPs showing a lack of care for the will of the electorate a development.

 

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Hoof Hearted 06 Jun 16 12.06pm

Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch

Did anyone see Prescott on the Politics Show yesterday? I had forgotten how much I dislike him.

I think it was mentioned earlier in this thread but I fail to see why politicians are giving the proletariat the choice to decide when they, as elected leaders, should be making the big calls.

Not only Prescott!

That absolute turd Major was on TV giving it large about the quality of the Leave Campaign leadership.

Pot. Kettle. Black

Major was the worst Conservative PM ever (if Blair hadn't taken over he would have been the worst PM of all time)

He is a liar and a hypocrite too... introducing the "Back to basics" initiative at the end of his time in office whilst having an affair with fellow MP Edwina Currie and both were married at the time.

What an odious snivelling scumbag Major is and was.

 

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We are goin up! Flag Coulsdon 06 Jun 16 12.12pm Send a Private Message to We are goin up! Add We are goin up! as a friend

Major was an absolute disgrace on Marr. He accused the Leave campaign of blatant lying, then said the Leave campaign was based on wanting to "send the immigrants home". I haven't seen a single Leave campaigner say that, not Johnson not Farage not Gove. Lying through his snivelly little teeth.

c***.

 


The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

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Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 06 Jun 16 12.28pm Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

Originally posted by We are goin up!


Because the people who were voted in to make big calls had it in their manifesto. Otherwise what's the point of their manifesto? The Conservatives would never have had a majority without that pledge, it was politics in action.

Equally there was a party that wanted out. They ended up with a decent share of the vote but how many seats?

 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

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Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 06 Jun 16 12.30pm Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

Originally posted by We are goin up!

Major was an absolute disgrace on Marr. He accused the Leave campaign of blatant lying, then said the Leave campaign was based on wanting to "send the immigrants home". I haven't seen a single Leave campaigner say that, not Johnson not Farage not Gove. Lying through his snivelly little teeth.

c***.

Nether side can take the moral high ground, they have both been making up "facts" as they go along.

 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

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leifandersonshair Flag Newport 06 Jun 16 12.32pm Send a Private Message to leifandersonshair Add leifandersonshair as a friend

Originally posted by We are goin up!

Major was an absolute disgrace on Marr. He accused the Leave campaign of blatant lying, then said the Leave campaign was based on wanting to "send the immigrants home". I haven't seen a single Leave campaigner say that, not Johnson not Farage not Gove. Lying through his snivelly little teeth.

c***.

I don't like Major, but he did have a point- there is an ugly, racially motivated undercurrent to the Leave campaign- not necessarily from the likes of Johnson and Gove, but certainly in some of those they are trying to appeal to. And this does make the likes of Farage seem like a scaremongering racist!

[Link]

 

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We are goin up! Flag Coulsdon 06 Jun 16 12.39pm Send a Private Message to We are goin up! Add We are goin up! as a friend

Originally posted by leifandersonshair

I don't like Major, but he did have a point- there is an ugly, racially motivated undercurrent to the Leave campaign- not necessarily from the likes of Johnson and Gove, but certainly in some of those they are trying to appeal to. And this does make the likes of Farage seem like a scaremongering racist!

[Link]


As far as I can see, he's saying that because it happened in Cologne it could happen in London. That is simply a statement of fact. It is not racist. I've lived in North Africa, believe me, the culture towards women is unrecognisable.

What is so appealing to many about Nigel Farage is that he says things that are true, even though the lefty thought police wouldn't like anyone to say it. I'm finding it very difficult to disagree with any of his arguments at the moment.

 


The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

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We are goin up! Flag Coulsdon 06 Jun 16 12.41pm Send a Private Message to We are goin up! Add We are goin up! as a friend

Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch

Equally there was a party that wanted out. They ended up with a decent share of the vote but how many seats?


And a party who won the general election because it promised a referendum. It was democracy in action, and frankly it was brilliant, and will be even more brilliant if we vote to leave.

If we do, it's shown to politicians that if you take the pi55 out of the people enough they will revolt and make you change course.

 


The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

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Hoof Hearted 06 Jun 16 12.42pm

Originally posted by leifandersonshair

I don't like Major, but he did have a point- there is an ugly, racially motivated undercurrent to the Leave campaign- not necessarily from the likes of Johnson and Gove, but certainly in some of those they are trying to appeal to. And this does make the likes of Farage seem like a scaremongering racist!

[Link]

He doesn't have a point though.....

Here is my "remain" team of w@nkers/underachievers/liars/u-turners....

Blunkett (Keeper)
Corbyn
Major
Blair
Mandelson
Brown
Cameron (Capt)
Osborne
Balls
Miliband
Prescott (Striker)

Hardly Champions League is it?


FFS


PS - Keith Vaz as Manager!

Edited by Hoof Hearted (06 Jun 2016 12.44pm)

 

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Kermit8 Flag Hevon 06 Jun 16 1.15pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Some fella on fb take on it which i 99% agree with.


Amid the noise and mud-slinging of this referendum campaign, it’s easy to forget why the European Union was founded: to prevent war in Europe.

And it has succeeded. Not only in turning old enemies France and Germany into close allies, but also in spreading democracy, human rights and the rule of law into countries which were dictatorships until the 1970s (including Spain, Portugal and Greece), or under Soviet control until the end of the Cold War in the 1990s.

These are astonishing achievements.

Bringing peace and prosperity to a continent which had been ravaged by war for a thousand years previously. Successfully nurturing democracy in potentially highly unstable countries in our own backyard. Extending human rights and the rule of law to hundreds of millions of European people through diplomatic means.

The EU was awarded a Nobel Peace Prize in 2012 for precisely these achievements.

So it makes me sad that Britain is now poised to abandon this great project.

But at least I’m in good company. For since this referendum was announced, seemingly every leader of the free world has urged us to remain. US President Barack Obama. German Chancellor Angela Merkel. Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi. Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe. Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull. And many, many more. In fact the only major overseas voices calling for Brexit seem to be US Presidential candidate Donald Trump and French National Front leader Marine Le Pen.

Meanwhile a consensus has emerged among British politicians and experts in favour of staying in the EU. Every current and former British Prime Minister. Every major UK political party leader except Nigel Farage. 300 leading historians. 83% of scientists. 40 religious leaders. Our six largest trades unions. 88% of economists. The Chief Executive of NHS England. The Royal College of Midwives. The National Farmers Union. An overwhelming majority of British businesses of all sizes.

The leave campaign glibly dismiss their concerns as ‘Project Fear’ – as if fear of Brexit was some kind of irrational phobia like being scared of spiders.

But there are clear and present dangers from leaving the EU – not least of course destabilising the institution that has brought peace to our continent for the first time in a thousand years.

Economists warn that Brexit will trigger a recession. People rightly take economists’ predictions with a pinch of salt. But you don’t need a complicated econometric model to tell you that investors don’t like risk. And you don’t need a crystal ball to see that risk and uncertainty will abound in the event of Brexit. For nobody – on either side of the debate – can tell you what our terms of trade would be with our largest trading partners afterwards. What kind of trade deals we might make to replace those which we would lose. What exit terms the other 27 EU countries would demand if we left. Or even whether we would remain in the Single Market or not. As a small business owner who trades with both EU and non-EU countries, let me tell you: these are not minor details.

And let me address one of the most pernicious myths of this campaign. That remaining in Europe is good for the elite, whilst leaving is good for the ‘man in the street’. Rubbish. The elite will be fine either way. They’ll find something else to do, or somewhere else to go, if the worst comes to the worst. But the man in the street? He’s the one who’ll be made redundant if a recession hits. He’s the one who will find his budget stretched beyond breaking point if our currency depreciates and imports become more expensive. For the dismal truth is: when economic trouble strikes, it’s those who can least afford it that suffer the most.

One thing we can say for sure is that whatever happens in the EU referendum, the next British General Election isn’t scheduled until 2020. We probably will have a new prime minister before then though as Cameron has indicated he’ll step down during this Parliament. Sooner rather than later I expect if he loses the referendum. So if we do leave the EU, the renegotiation of our employment rights and environmental safeguards currently handled by the EU will fall to the triumphant Eurosceptic right-wing of the Tory party. Is that what you want? Possibly, if you’re one of the eccentric billionaires or offshore media moguls who is behind the leave campaign. But I fear for ordinary voters (including moderate Conservatives like me) that would be a very worrying dynamic.

Some say that it is not the EU but NATO which secures our peace. They are half right. NATO is our most powerful military alliance. But as we have learned time and again, you cannot bomb another country into becoming a peaceful democracy. And whether you care about their citizens or not, it matters to Britain whether our neighbours are democracies or despotisms. Nothing has been more effective in spreading democracy and the rule of law in our neighbourhood over the last 40 years than the European Union. Yet oddly it’s those same people who say that being an EU member involves an intolerable loss of sovereignty. Giving up powers which should reside at home. I say oddly as they almost never complain about our NATO membership, which does exactly the same thing – sharing our sovereign power with other nations to achieve a greater outcome than we could achieve on our own. To the EU, we must pay a membership fee, accept free movement of people and the supremacy of EU law. Not insignificant contributions. But less significant than having to declare war if somebody attacks a NATO ally. And Britain is of course free to leave the EU whenever she likes through a simple majority vote in Parliament and the exercise of Article 50.

And this is my final observation: this referendum is asymmetric. If we leave, and then decide we made the wrong choice, rejoining would require the consent of all 27 other member states. But if we remain, and then decide later that we wish to leave, Britain can do that on her own through a simple Act of Parliament. So if there’s any doubt at all in our minds, then clearly it is better to remain and keep our options open than to leave and be at the mercy of 27 other countries should we later realise our error.

 


Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]


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Kermit8 Flag Hevon 06 Jun 16 1.17pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

He doesn't have a point though.....

Here is my "remain" team of w@nkers/underachievers/liars/u-turners....

Blunkett (Keeper)
Corbyn
Major
Blair
Mandelson
Brown
Cameron (Capt)
Osborne
Balls
Miliband
Prescott (Striker)

Hardly Champions League is it?


FFS


PS - Keith Vaz as Manager!

Edited by Hoof Hearted (06 Jun 2016 12.44pm)

Brexiteers Donald and Le Pen alone trumps that lot for obnoxiousness.

 


Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]


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