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Tory sleaze part 2,783
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  Hrolf The Ganger  05 Nov 21 3.49pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
You seem just not to be getting this. The point is that the 'best' people often don't get a look in with the Conservative party due to the old school tie effect. The 'best' people probably went to Imperial, UCL, LSE, Durham and St Andrews just as much or more than OxBridge. But it just doesn't cut it with the old money types. So we get a monoculture of people who are probably not the best available. I understand that, but there has to be a desire to enter politics and maybe the right kind of people often lack that desire.
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| Badger11 Beckenham 05 Nov 21 4.06pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
I understand that, but there has to be a desire to enter politics and maybe the right kind of people often lack that desire. There is a lack of first class minds across all parties. I suspect these people gravitate to business or academia. Can you blame them with all that media attention on politicians and their families. They can earn more or achieve more e.g. research and not have to get involved in the BS that is politics. Unfortunately it is a self fulfilling prophesy, 2nd rate minds promoting 2n rate minds. Where are the Attlee's and the Thatcher's people with vision and drive.
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| Mapletree Croydon 05 Nov 21 4.18pm |
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Now that just feels like you are clutching at straws. There were plenty of candidates for the 'safe seats' and always will be, they are prized. For example, Chris Philp came from outside the area and was put forward by the local party in favour of the other three candidates (plus some that were not invited to be candidates) - each of whom was female by the way. He is now bullet proof, Croydon South will always vote massively for the Conservatives. And, guess what. He went to Oxford.
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| Mapletree Croydon 05 Nov 21 4.26pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
There is a lack of first class minds across all parties. I suspect these people gravitate to business or academia. Can you blame them with all that media attention on politicians and their families. They can earn more or achieve more e.g. research and not have to get involved in the BS that is politics. Unfortunately it is a self fulfilling prophesy, 2nd rate minds promoting 2n rate minds. Where are the Attlee's and the Thatcher's people with vision and drive. From where do you gain this impression? Certainly not from the educational backgrounds of MPs. Sarah Jones is our MP and to me looks extremely good. She is effective in Parliament and also very active locally. She Chairs an all party parliamentary group focusing on how to tackle knife crime and is now Shadow Housing Minister. And it so happens she went to Durham University. Edited by Mapletree (05 Nov 2021 4.27pm)
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| DanH SW2 05 Nov 21 4.26pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
But ultimately the problem is that we want democracy on the cheap. We should be paying our MP's a LOT more money and drive cancers like lobbying and so on, out of the system altogether. Ditto with the financial influences of Trade Unions and the like. And introduce legislation that forbids MP's from leaving Parliament and going straight into jobs for any company that benefits from Government spending for say a period of 5 years. Human nature being what it is you are never going to completely drive corruption out of the system but there are a lot of steps that could be taken now to minimise it. Lobbying is killing our democracy. As simple as that. Bang on.
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| Mapletree Croydon 05 Nov 21 4.29pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
But ultimately the problem is that we want democracy on the cheap. We should be paying our MP's a LOT more money and drive cancers like lobbying and so on, out of the system altogether. Ditto with the financial influences of Trade Unions and the like. And introduce legislation that forbids MP's from leaving Parliament and going straight into jobs for any company that benefits from Government spending for say a period of 5 years. Human nature being what it is you are never going to completely drive corruption out of the system but there are a lot of steps that could be taken now to minimise it. Lobbying is killing our democracy. As simple as that. I also agree with you Matov. I do not think the average MP has their 'snout in the trough' though, I think most do their very best and have good ethics. The trouble is the most powerful politicians are the less ethical, having trampled those worthy souls along the way. Just watch Chris Philp climb the greasy pole.
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BlueJay  UK 05 Nov 21 4.44pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
But ultimately the problem is that we want democracy on the cheap. We should be paying our MP's a LOT more money and drive cancers like lobbying and so on, out of the system altogether. Ditto with the financial influences of Trade Unions and the like. And introduce legislation that forbids MP's from leaving Parliament and going straight into jobs for any company that benefits from Government spending for say a period of 5 years. Human nature being what it is you are never going to completely drive corruption out of the system but there are a lot of steps that could be taken now to minimise it. Lobbying is killing our democracy. As simple as that. Good points well made, and a framework that looks beyond the Punch and Judy of 'left' this and 'right' that. All the finger pointing does is get hijacked by political parties to distract us from their particular misdeeds.
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| steeleye20 Croydon 05 Nov 21 4.46pm |
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Why is it only tory sleaze part 2,783. It is really only what capitalism has always been. Paterson is finding it 'intolerable' well so do we. Odd his wife's suicide, she had everything it seemed.
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| Grumbles 05 Nov 21 5.18pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Odd his wife's suicide, she had everything it seemed. I would not speculate on the reason someone took their own life, it is never black and white and normally a waste.
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| Badger11 Beckenham 05 Nov 21 6.02pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
From where do you gain this impression? Certainly not from the educational backgrounds of MPs. Edited by Mapletree (05 Nov 2021 4.27pm) Ok that's one but there are 650 MPs Just look at the Labour and Tory front benches today and compare them to the equivalent back in the forties and fifties. It's not just education it's real world experience as well, compare the the pre war and post war politicians backgrounds to today's lot.
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| Mapletree Croydon 05 Nov 21 6.43pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
Ok that's one but there are 650 MPs Just look at the Labour and Tory front benches today and compare them to the equivalent back in the forties and fifties. It's not just education it's real world experience as well, compare the the pre war and post war politicians backgrounds to today's lot. You are just old Mostly they are well educated but maybe rather more career politicians. I like Lisa Nandy, I don't remember her saying anything with which I disagreed and she is feisty To my surprise Angela Rayner has done a really good job this week. Annelise Dodds has always come across well Thangham Debbonaire has looked strong recently When you are in the opposition you get less of a chance to stand out but to me there appears plenty of talent On the Tory side I can respect a few but loathe many. You can guess who.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 05 Nov 21 6.47pm |
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Originally posted by DanH
Bang on.
I see no problem with MPs taking well paid jobs after they leave Parliament, but clearly, there cannot be a conflict of interests whilst they are in the house. I think we can all agree on that.
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