I respect that view, but some, indeed many, hardline Brexiteers were wanting out at any cost. For them the very notion of us being part of the EU is an anathema and re-entry in any circumstances unthinkable.

We are probably closer in our views than you might imagine. I saw the need for change but wanted to achieve it from within. Now the baby has been thrown out and the bathwater running down the drain.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

I always believed that if we voted to Remain in 2016, then joining the Euro would have been the logical step to take. One of my many objections to our EU membership was that by not adopting the single currency, it would push us by default to an increasingly isolated position and that our future had to be decided one way or the other. Either both feet fully in or, and by far my preferred option, completely out. We either had to be fully in the middle of the EU and embracing the wider ambitions or else leave it altogether.

If we ever do rejoin then I see nothing to be gained by not adopting the Euro, especially if we ever want to carry any kind of meaningful influence. Naturally, I will fight tooth and nail to prevent this (with the one exception being if somebody emerges who offers a truly inspiring vision of what a united Europe could look like) but anybody campaigning for us to rejoin, has to push for a complete signing up to ALL the EU projects.

Edited by Matov (04 May 2021 9.06pm)

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

1.We are not reentering....and adopting the Euro is a requirement of entry
What is the point of 'associate ' terms? Thought you wanted to reform from within? As associates we would surely be unable to do that? You really think Macron and Merkei will just say welcome back on the same terms? No they will try and punish the UK for having the temerity to leave...but it isnt happening (unless weak as piss Starmer becomes PM and that aint happening either!

Edited by the silurian (04 May 2021 9.28pm)

I can understand your point. Look into Armenia, Georgia - plenty of others. Not really much in our news at all. Albania, Chechnya, obviously Ukraine. They even fly over Ireland all the time.
The problem I would think with Putin is if he fails in domestic politics he may find a patriotic war or two.

Red and Blue Army!

But the trouble is that the EU is a trading block. You are talking about a “European Army” as though Europe is one country. It is a continent made up of a number of countries and that’s the problem, in my view. I give it 30 years and the EU will either be the ‘nation’ or will have lost many countries. What should perhaps happen is that it should look at Brexit, consider the reasons and ask itself if it needs to reform, slow down or change. It is too arrogant to do this, sadly.

To me it is absolutely clear that the ambitions of Brussels go well beyond a simple trading block. It will control taxes, access and economies as well as armies and air forces.

Personally I think the EU, with it’s current ambitions and leaders such as Macron - is looking like a potentially dangerous entity and, had it remained purely as a trading block - a collection of individual, friendly countries engaging in free trade and free movement - it would be perfect. That it needed a body to look after the collective trading interests when negotiating externally is clear but it didn’t need a parliament, a flag, a president. As I keep saying it is the direction of travel that I find most worrying here. (And I voted remain but have reflected, considered and reviewed over the last few years).

That's just a unilateral threat/action from France and has nothing to do with the 'EU'. As a sovereign nation, France or in fact any other country within or outside of the EU can take any action it sees fit. In fact that's been seen on multiple occasions during the pandemic when sovereign nations who are EU members and within the Schengen zone, closed their borders, absolutely zilch to do with the EU.

You're just showing your 'little England' hatred of the EU.

I give you 1/10, can try better but probably not capable.

Edited by Orange1290 (05 May 2021 7.55am)

Pro China, EU & Palestine