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 serial thriller  The Promised Land 25 Sep 19 11.47am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
The last bit sounds like a plan to make us a lot poorer. Oil makes the world economy work.....attacking that isn't sensible. Oil is also running out, costing more to drill from the ground every year, has destroyed our oceans, is controlled by some of the worst despots in the world (from Venezuela to Saudi Arabia) and is causing some of the worst flooding, droughts and temperatures we have seen in 10 thousand years.
If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4 |
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 Hrolf The Ganger 25 Sep 19 11.52am |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
Quite co-incidentally I had a prescription review with my GP's pharmacist last night and she told me that pharma companies take out a patent when the potential product is little more than an idea and it can then take 20 years to develop it to a level where it is saleable which means that they only have five years in which to recover their costs until the patent expires.
That is one of the reasons why several of the big pharma' companies merged.
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| Stirlingsays 25 Sep 19 12.00pm |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
Oil is also running out, costing more to drill from the ground every year, has destroyed our oceans, is controlled by some of the worst despots in the world (from Venezuela to Saudi Arabia) and is causing some of the worst flooding, droughts and temperatures we have seen in 10 thousand years. Sure it's running out....in about fifty years. Yeah, lots of countries don't hold anything like western values, that's for them. As for your climate claims....Mmmmm..I recognise climate change but I don't accept your narrative....Al Gore said cities would be under water by 2006....the same kind of hyperbole and inaccurate emotionalism still abounds. I support a gradual shift to nuclear....much safer technologies in nuclear are coming online and its much cheaper. I don't support putting the middle and working classes energy bills up to pay for 'green' technologies that are far less effective and more expensive. Compare France's energy bills where they are mostly nuclear to Germany's 'green' bills. Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Sep 2019 12.01pm)
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| serial thriller The Promised Land 25 Sep 19 12.12pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Sure it's running out....in about fifty years. Yeah, lots of countries don't hold anything like western values, that's for them. As for your climate claims....Mmmmm..I recognise climate change but I don't accept your narrative....Al Gore said cities would be under water by 2006....the same kind of hyperbole and inaccurate emotionalism still abounds. I support a gradual shift to nuclear....much safer technologies in nuclear are coming online and its much cheaper. I don't support putting the middle and working classes energy bills up to pay for 'green' technologies that are far less effective and more expensive. Compare France's energy bills where they are mostly nuclear to Germany's 'green' bills. Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Sep 2019 12.01pm) Our new nuclear site in Hinckley is being built by French and Chinese companies for their own profit, will see a negligible rise in output, is already 3 billion over budget (paid for by us taxpayers of course) and EDF have had multiple safety warnings issued against them. Improving solar cells, harnessing tidal energy and investing in hydrogen fuel would produce enough energy to meet our requirements, without the threat of nuclear catastrophe. Oh, and the Green New Deal has been drawn up by economists, who have factored in energy tax credits for poorer families as part of the gradual transition phase.
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| steeleye20 Croydon 25 Sep 19 12.13pm |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
Oil is also running out, costing more to drill from the ground every year, has destroyed our oceans, is controlled by some of the worst despots in the world (from Venezuela to Saudi Arabia) and is causing some of the worst flooding, droughts and temperatures we have seen in 10 thousand years. Think of all the wars that have been fought over it, will be glad to see the back of it.
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| Stirlingsays 25 Sep 19 12.20pm |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
Our new nuclear site in Hinckley is being built by French and Chinese companies for their own profit, will see a negligible rise in output, is already 3 billion over budget (paid for by us taxpayers of course) and EDF have had multiple safety warnings issued against them. The argument against modern nuclear isn't valid, the arguments on its implementation.....well we might have some agreement on that. That's neo liberals for you. Originally posted by serial thriller
Improving solar cells, harnessing tidal energy and investing in hydrogen fuel would produce enough energy to meet our requirements, without the threat of nuclear catastrophe. Oh, and the Green New Deal has been drawn up by economists, who have factored in energy tax credits for poorer families as part of the gradual transition phase. With 'green' energy you are talking 'jam tomorrow' on efficiency and It's not true that it meets our requirements and as for costs....again Germany is an example that already exists...compare its energy bills to France's. Oh and you can find economists to stand for pretty much any stance....like you can find some engineers who will say that fire didn't bring down WTC1 & 2....just as you can find lawyers who will argue for whatever stance there is.
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| Stirlingsays 25 Sep 19 12.23pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Think of all the wars that have been fought over it, will be glad to see the back of it. If you are referring to Iraq. The US hasn't profited from Iraqi oil. If that's what you are saying then you believed in lies.
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| W12 25 Sep 19 1.58pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
The US hasn't profited from Iraqi oil. If that's what you are saying then you believed in lies. Agreed and this is not well known. The Iraq war was never about oil anyway. The neocons and the Blarites naively thought that Islamic countries would want some form democracy so they could spread market stability through the region (although Blair probably wanted something more akin to Marxism) but that's just not the possible. They misunderstood the region entirely. I think we can all agree it was a complete disaster. We should have been building nuclear power stations for years but the green lobby has been successful in hamstringing the country. Energy self sufficiency is a matter of national security as Trump well understands. Green energy is just not fit for purpose and won't be for the foreseeable however much money we poor into it. Then there is the fact that the current "climate emergency" is utter bulls***.
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| serial thriller The Promised Land 25 Sep 19 2.13pm |
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Originally posted by W12
Agreed and this is not well known. The Iraq war was never about oil anyway. The neocons and the Blarites naively thought that Islamic countries would want some form democracy so they could spread market stability through the region (although Blair probably wanted something more akin to Marxism) but that's just not the possible. They misunderstood the region entirely. We should have been building nuclear power stations for years but the green lobby has been successful in hamstringing the country. Energy self sufficiency is a matter of national security as Trump well understands. Green energy is just not fit for purpose and won't be for the foreseeable however much money we poor into it. Then there is the fact that the current "climate emergency" is utter bulls***. Iraq may not have been about oil, but it certainly wasn't about democracy. If it was, why did we ignore the first democratic vote which happened after Saddam was overthrown and instead put a puppet leader in charge? Iraq was a war about private banks and infrastructure companies who wanted to open a new market, but thought the enemy would be far easier to defeat than they were. Our support for the Saudis in Yemen is a good example of an oil-driven war. We also spend billions on protecting the Gulf States, who provide oil to Asian economies and are thus of incredible geopolitical importance. We continue to support regimes in Africa and South America who provide cheap oil but are creating instability in their regions. It is the basis of much of our financial markets too, which have been destroying our society for decades. As for there not being a climate emergency: how? almost the entire scientific community is agreed on this. Where's your evidence?
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| Stirlingsays 25 Sep 19 2.13pm |
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Originally posted by W12
Agreed and this is not well known. The Iraq war was never about oil anyway. The neocons and the Blarites naively thought that Islamic countries would want some form democracy so they could spread market stability through the region (although Blair probably wanted something more akin to Marxism) but that's just not the possible. They misunderstood the region entirely. I think we can all agree it was a complete disaster. We should have been building nuclear power stations for years but the green lobby has been successful in hamstringing the country. Energy self sufficiency is a matter of national security as Trump well understands. Green energy is just not fit for purpose and won't be for the foreseeable however much money we poor into it. Then there is the fact that the current "climate emergency" is utter bulls***. All good points. The lack of clear no nonsense thinking within our political class has cost us dear....literally.
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| Stirlingsays 25 Sep 19 2.21pm |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
Iraq may not have been about oil, but it certainly wasn't about democracy. If it was, why did we ignore the first democratic vote which happened after Saddam was overthrown and instead put a puppet leader in charge? Re-read what he wrote.....I'm not exactly sure what you expect....So we spend blood and money only to have a new government that doesn't work with us? However, the expectation was never to be there long....and as W12 said...it was all naive and a misjudgement of middle eastern societies. Originally posted by serial thriller
Iraq was a war about private banks and infrastructure companies who wanted to open a new market, but thought the enemy would be far easier to defeat than they were. Pretty much what he said. Originally posted by serial thriller
Our support for the Saudis in Yemen is a good example of an oil-driven war. We also spend billions on protecting the Gulf States, who provide oil to Asian economies and are thus of incredible geopolitical importance. We continue to support regimes in Africa and South America who provide cheap oil but are creating instability in their regions. It is the basis of much of our financial markets too, which have been destroying our society for decades. Yep, all done on supporting the lesser evil.....it's valid to criticise it but I've yet to hear better alternatives. Originally posted by serial thriller
As for there not being a climate emergency: how? almost the entire scientific community is agreed on this. Where's your evidence? Al Gore claimed the same thing. Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Sep 2019 2.23pm)
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| serial thriller The Promised Land 25 Sep 19 3.24pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Al Gore claimed the same thing. Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Sep 2019 2.23pm) And 5 of the hottest years in human history have been in the last 7 years. Antarctica icecapd are melting at an observable accelerated rate. We are seeing flooding in Spain in August, temperatures of nearly 40 in Britain, the widescale destruction of the oceans and huge droughts in Africa. Yes, we're not all donning snorkelling gear yet, but that doesn't mean he was wrong.
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