Rise in violent crime

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Rise in violent crime

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Teddy Eagle 07 Mar 19 12.54pm
It’s possible that the current expectation of so many of going onto further education has an adverse effect in the kids who know they won’t either because of ability or inclination. What’s the point of applying yourself if you’ll be in competition with degree holders even for entry level positions? This lack of application then mitigates against the idea of bringing back apprenticeships.
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Teddy Eagle

07 Mar 19 12.54pm

It’s possible that the current expectation of so many of going onto further education has an adverse effect in the kids who know they won’t either because of ability or inclination. What’s the point of applying yourself if you’ll be in competition with degree holders even for entry level positions? This lack of application then mitigates against the idea of bringing back apprenticeships.

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blackheatheagle Beckenham 07 Mar 19 1.16pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Very good point. It's not like us White folk were born with a silver spoon or had a great education. The vast majority did not turn to serious violence just because their dad buggered off and we didn't get enough toys. Poverty, home issues etc are not an excuse to become a murdering scumbag. In my experience, people become inclined toward violence at a very young age. I won't go as far to say that they are born that way but certainly, nurture seems to switch some people's violent nature on much more so than others. Is there a measurable difference across racial groups? I don't know the answer. Does a culture that promotes violence perpetuate it? For sure. I believe there is a pattern that when a group (religious, nation, race etc) does not feel they belong to society they live in, this trigger behaviour which trigger violence. Usually profiles who are interacted with these incidents fails to integrate or accept the culture they live within. As it is not surprising that these segments usually suffer because of poverty, poverty can be treated as a root cause. Whereas, it is in fact a result like having criminal attitude which is being discussed under this topic. This directly escalates the issue to these segments who suffer as it is their responsibility to integrate and feel like part of the society they live in. But at the other hand, it is also society`s responsibility to enable this. The fact is, there are lots of people who works for this at both side but i guess as long as there is `both side`, issue will remain. Unfortunately, not having `both side` is simply utopia.
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blackheatheagle

Beckenham 07 Mar 19 1.16pm

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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Very good point.

It's not like us White folk were born with a silver spoon or had a great education.
The vast majority did not turn to serious violence just because their dad buggered off and we didn't get enough toys.

Poverty, home issues etc are not an excuse to become a murdering scumbag.
In my experience, people become inclined toward violence at a very young age. I won't go as far to say that they are born that way but certainly, nurture seems to switch some people's violent nature on much more so than others.

Is there a measurable difference across racial groups?
I don't know the answer.
Does a culture that promotes violence perpetuate it? For sure.

I believe there is a pattern that when a group (religious, nation, race etc) does not feel they belong to society they live in, this trigger behaviour which trigger violence.

Usually profiles who are interacted with these incidents fails to integrate or accept the culture they live within. As it is not surprising that these segments usually suffer because of poverty, poverty can be treated as a root cause. Whereas, it is in fact a result like having criminal attitude which is being discussed under this topic.

This directly escalates the issue to these segments who suffer as it is their responsibility to integrate and feel like part of the society they live in. But at the other hand, it is also society`s responsibility to enable this. The fact is, there are lots of people who works for this at both side but i guess as long as there is `both side`, issue will remain. Unfortunately, not having `both side` is simply utopia.

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W12 07 Mar 19 2.03pm
Originally posted by SW19 CPFC I agree it's a combination of factors, certainly family and social being one very strong one, but for someone associated with OFSTEAD to say all kids get an equal educational chance is complete and utter bollocks. Possibly the most ridiculous, over simplified and incorrect tripe I've ever heard. Not all state schooling is of a level to provide an equal chance Not all classes are smaller enough to ensure kids get enough mentoring Not all teachers are good at their jobs Not all schools are full of well behaved kids Not all schools are full of 2.4 children families with 3 beds and a garden Not all state schools are in middle class, semi-affluent areas I could go on. And on. If you agree with that you are a brainless idiot. I mean, really. He was obviously generalizing which is all you are going to get on a 30 second soundbite (especially on the BBC) but making the point that (being a former teacher) social/family/cultural factors could not be ignored which is what the other panelists were clearly trying to do (clearly trying to avoid that discussion). But sure play the man and not the ball. I mean, really.
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W12 07 Mar 19 2.03pm

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

I agree it's a combination of factors, certainly family and social being one very strong one, but for someone associated with OFSTEAD to say all kids get an equal educational chance is complete and utter bollocks. Possibly the most ridiculous, over simplified and incorrect tripe I've ever heard.

Not all state schooling is of a level to provide an equal chance
Not all classes are smaller enough to ensure kids get enough mentoring
Not all teachers are good at their jobs
Not all schools are full of well behaved kids
Not all schools are full of 2.4 children families with 3 beds and a garden
Not all state schools are in middle class, semi-affluent areas

I could go on. And on.

If you agree with that you are a brainless idiot.

I mean, really.

He was obviously generalizing which is all you are going to get on a 30 second soundbite (especially on the BBC) but making the point that (being a former teacher) social/family/cultural factors could not be ignored which is what the other panelists were clearly trying to do (clearly trying to avoid that discussion).

But sure play the man and not the ball.

I mean, really.

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PalazioVecchio south pole 07 Mar 19 3.10pm
Originally posted by blackheatheagle I believe there is a pattern that when a group (religious, nation, race etc) does not feel they belong to society they live in, this trigger behaviour which trigger violence. Usually profiles who are interacted with these incidents fails to integrate or accept the culture they live within. As it is not surprising that these segments usually suffer because of poverty, poverty can be treated as a root cause. Whereas, it is in fact a result like having criminal attitude which is being discussed under this topic. This directly escalates the issue to these segments who suffer as it is their responsibility to integrate and feel like part of the society they live in. But at the other hand, it is also society`s responsibility to enable this. The fact is, there are lots of people who works for this at both side but i guess as long as there is `both side`, issue will remain. Unfortunately, not having `both side` is simply utopia. your point would be valid except i do not recall gangs of Chinese kids running about stabbing each other. some background cultures promote hard work, initiative, honesty etc....and some don't. Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford
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PalazioVecchio

south pole 07 Mar 19 3.10pm

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Originally posted by blackheatheagle

I believe there is a pattern that when a group (religious, nation, race etc) does not feel they belong to society they live in, this trigger behaviour which trigger violence.

your point would be valid except i do not recall gangs of Chinese kids running about stabbing each other.

some background cultures promote hard work, initiative, honesty etc....and some don't.

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

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Stirlingsays 07 Mar 19 4.49pm
Originally posted by PalazioVecchio your point would be valid except i do not recall gangs of Chinese kids running about stabbing each other. some background cultures promote hard work, initiative, honesty etc....and some don't. It's a good point of course. Every group has its violent criminals of course but as with everything it's a question of percent. Referring to violence happening because groups feel disconnected from society just doesn't hold water because these higher crime rates also exist within the heritage countries of their parents. It isn't a nice talking point but you get the impression that a lot of this is like an alcoholic who just doesn't want to tackle the problem......they would rather die peacefully. Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Mar 2019 4.51pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

07 Mar 19 4.49pm

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

your point would be valid except i do not recall gangs of Chinese kids running about stabbing each other.

some background cultures promote hard work, initiative, honesty etc....and some don't.

It's a good point of course.

Every group has its violent criminals of course but as with everything it's a question of percent.

Referring to violence happening because groups feel disconnected from society just doesn't hold water because these higher crime rates also exist within the heritage countries of their parents.

It isn't a nice talking point but you get the impression that a lot of this is like an alcoholic who just doesn't want to tackle the problem......they would rather die peacefully.

Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Mar 2019 4.51pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 07 Mar 19 5.08pm
The country is talking about knife crime yet the courts let people carrying, threatening and using knives on bail. I mean, really? COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 07 Mar 19 5.08pm

The country is talking about knife crime yet the courts let people carrying, threatening and using knives on bail. I mean, really?

COYP

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SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 07 Mar 19 5.14pm
Originally posted by W12 Originally posted by SW19 CPFC I agree it's a combination of factors, certainly family and social being one very strong one, but for someone associated with OFSTEAD to say all kids get an equal educational chance is complete and utter bollocks. Possibly the most ridiculous, over simplified and incorrect tripe I've ever heard. Not all state schooling is of a level to provide an equal chance Not all classes are smaller enough to ensure kids get enough mentoring Not all teachers are good at their jobs Not all schools are full of well behaved kids Not all schools are full of 2.4 children families with 3 beds and a garden Not all state schools are in middle class, semi-affluent areas I could go on. And on. If you agree with that you are a brainless idiot. I mean, really. He was obviously generalizing which is all you are going to get on a 30 second soundbite (especially on the BBC) but making the point that (being a former teacher) social/family/cultural factors could not be ignored which is what the other panelists were clearly trying to do (clearly trying to avoid that discussion). But sure play the man and not the ball. I mean, really. Of course it’s generalising, but crucially it’s generalising incorrectly. Or is generalising fine no matter the context or truth? If that was the point he was making he should have said that and not talked about every child having an equal opportunity, which again, is nonsense. Very clumsy and unhelpful. Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.
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SW19 CPFC

Addiscombe West 07 Mar 19 5.14pm

Originally posted by W12

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

I could go on. And on.

If you agree with that you are a brainless idiot.

I mean, really.

But sure play the man and not the ball.

I mean, really.

Of course it’s generalising, but crucially it’s generalising incorrectly. Or is generalising fine no matter the context or truth?

If that was the point he was making he should have said that and not talked about every child having an equal opportunity, which again, is nonsense.

Very clumsy and unhelpful.

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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jeeagles 07 Mar 19 6.41pm
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman The country is talking about knife crime yet the courts let people carrying, threatening and using knives on bail. I mean, really? Yep. No real value in putting more police on the streets unless these people are locked up for a long time. The social detachment and poverty arguments simply don't wash. The majority of people from these backgrounds aren't knife carrying scumbags.
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jeeagles

07 Mar 19 6.41pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

The country is talking about knife crime yet the courts let people carrying, threatening and using knives on bail. I mean, really?

Yep. No real value in putting more police on the streets unless these people are locked up for a long time.

The social detachment and poverty arguments simply don't wash. The majority of people from these backgrounds aren't knife carrying scumbags.

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 07 Mar 19 7.00pm
Originally posted by jeeagles Yep. No real value in putting more police on the streets unless these people are locked up for a long time. The social detachment and poverty arguments simply don't wash. The majority of people from these backgrounds aren't knife carrying scumbags. Some knuckle down and go to college after school. Some get one of the jobs that are available. Not all poor people stab or join gangs. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 07 Mar 19 7.00pm

Originally posted by jeeagles

Yep. No real value in putting more police on the streets unless these people are locked up for a long time.

The social detachment and poverty arguments simply don't wash. The majority of people from these backgrounds aren't knife carrying scumbags.

Some knuckle down and go to college after school. Some get one of the jobs that are available.

Not all poor people stab or join gangs.

COYP

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steeleye20 Croydon 07 Mar 19 7.07pm
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman The country is talking about knife crime yet the courts let people carrying, threatening and using knives on bail. I mean, really? I really don't get why anybody can carry an offensive weapon, not at all. There was action over guns which worked, it is a 5 years sentence. When I say tough on crime and it's causes, it is not a wet leftie message, I mean the opposite.
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steeleye20

Croydon 07 Mar 19 7.07pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

The country is talking about knife crime yet the courts let people carrying, threatening and using knives on bail. I mean, really?

I really don't get why anybody can carry an offensive weapon, not at all.

There was action over guns which worked, it is a 5 years sentence.

When I say tough on crime and it's causes, it is not a wet leftie message, I mean the opposite.

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Stirlingsays 07 Mar 19 7.23pm
Zero tolerance is certainly a tactic that works short term....clearing the streets of the problem is obviously going to do that. But it would be very expensive. The cost of building the extra prisons with the extra cost of personnel is significant......having said that, I do believe that if you are going to increase the population size that this has to come with an increase in prison numbers and hence accommodation that reflect the crime rate. Then you have the problem of the fact that they are coming out. So now we have an even larger pool of morons with criminal records who have just spent time mixing with other criminal morons.....and now because of the criminal record they have problems turning it around even if they wanted to. There is no easy answer to this problem......If you have the means, move away from these areas. But one thing is for certain. The kind of ideological morons who created this problem are the kind of morons in charge of it now.......At most all they can do and will do is put sticker plasters over it......and it's a wait and see if they even do that.. Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Mar 2019 7.23pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

07 Mar 19 7.23pm

Zero tolerance is certainly a tactic that works short term....clearing the streets of the problem is obviously going to do that.

But it would be very expensive.

The cost of building the extra prisons with the extra cost of personnel is significant......having said that, I do believe that if you are going to increase the population size that this has to come with an increase in prison numbers and hence accommodation that reflect the crime rate.

Then you have the problem of the fact that they are coming out. So now we have an even larger pool of morons with criminal records who have just spent time mixing with other criminal morons.....and now because of the criminal record they have problems turning it around even if they wanted to.

There is no easy answer to this problem......If you have the means, move away from these areas.

But one thing is for certain. The kind of ideological morons who created this problem are the kind of morons in charge of it now.......At most all they can do and will do is put sticker plasters over it......and it's a wait and see if they even do that..

Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Mar 2019 7.23pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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cryrst The garden of England 07 Mar 19 7.46pm
Another teenager bought it this afternoon in kensington. Bloody kensington wtf. Clearly this is an epidemic and harah responses from all the upper echelons in power are needed. No race cards or poverty oh woe is me. I bet most of it is drug related. They legalised some drugs in Portugal recently. Crime has bombed especially violent crime. Im just saying. Sure at first some dicks will cop it by overdoing it but in time it will be like the end of prohibition in america. Plus there is far more control over quality and it can be taxed.
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cryrst

The garden of England 07 Mar 19 7.46pm

Another teenager bought it this afternoon in kensington.
Bloody kensington wtf.
Clearly this is an epidemic and harah responses from all the upper echelons in power are needed.
No race cards or poverty oh woe is me.
I bet most of it is drug related.
They legalised some drugs in Portugal recently.
Crime has bombed especially violent crime.
Im just saying.
Sure at first some dicks will cop it by overdoing it but in time it will be like the end of prohibition in america.
Plus there is far more control over quality and it can be taxed.

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