This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.
Register | Edit Profile | Subscriptions | Forum Rules | Log In
Ulysses 13 Apr 18 10.24pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Bert the Head Epsom 13 Apr 18 11.38pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Stirlingsays
This guy seems to be like some taboo subject area. I don't like his past affiliation with football hooliganism. On that he deserves criticism. However, those days aren't now. What has he actually said that deserves this? I bet most of those that hate his guy don't know, they just unthinkingly echo the hyperbolic smears. From what I observe this guy is being prosecuted by his own state when he is one of the few people standing up for western culture. Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Apr 2018 3.03pm) What has he actually said that deserves this? "Every single Muslim watching this… on 7/7 you got away with killing and maiming British citizens… you had better understand that we have built a network from one end of the country to the other end… and the Islamic community will feel the full force of the English Defence League if we see any of our British citizens killed, maimed, or hurt on British soil ever again." So every single Muslim watching this was a terrorist. Like every British christian was culpable because we supported the USA who supplied and supported Iraq in using gas (Mustard and Sarin) on Iranians in the 1980s...before gassing people was a bad thing. Edited by Bert the Head (13 Apr 2018 11.38pm)
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Stirlingsays 14 Apr 18 1.30am | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Bert the Head
What has he actually said that deserves this? "Every single Muslim watching this… on 7/7 you got away with killing and maiming British citizens… you had better understand that we have built a network from one end of the country to the other end… and the Islamic community will feel the full force of the English Defence League if we see any of our British citizens killed, maimed, or hurt on British soil ever again." So every single Muslim watching this was a terrorist. Like every British christian was culpable because we supported the USA who supplied and supported Iraq in using gas (Mustard and Sarin) on Iranians in the 1980s...before gassing people was a bad thing. Edited by Bert the Head (13 Apr 2018 11.38pm) Emotions were high after 7/7. Saying 'all' was something for which he deserved criticism and he has since apologised for that statement. Is that it?
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Stirlingsays 14 Apr 18 1.37am | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Ulysses
Allegiance is what is important. People can self 'perceive' for personal self interest. Britain is not a nation, it is a collection of home nations in a union. I often find that the people who were born here but only describe themselves as 'British' without recognizing the actual home nation usually are pretty weak when it comes to allegiance. Hence they aren't really the same. They get all the benefits of a person who would stick with this country through think and thin yet they don't really care for it.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Ulysses 14 Apr 18 11.05am | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Allegiance is what is important. People can self 'perceive' for personal self interest. Britain is not a nation, it is a collection of home nations in a union. I often find that the people who were born here but only describe themselves as 'British' without recognizing the actual home nation usually are pretty weak when it comes to allegiance. Hence they aren't really the same. They get all the benefits of a person who would stick with this country through think and thin yet they don't really care for it. Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Apr 2018 1.41am)
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Stirlingsays 14 Apr 18 11.17am | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Ulysses
I even mention one in the sentence you highlight. God knows what the century has to do with it. Do you think they say in China, 'How exactly do you show strong allegiance in 21st century China?'
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Ulysses 14 Apr 18 11.40am | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Do you think they say in China, 'How exactly do you show strong allegiance in 21st century China?'
OK, so recognising the actual home nation apparently shows strong allegiance to your country. What else in your eyes? I'm asking because I think it could be just as easy to feign as self-perception.
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Stirlingsays 14 Apr 18 12.43pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Ulysses
OK, so recognising the actual home nation apparently shows strong allegiance to your country. What else in your eyes? I'm asking because I think it could be just as easy to feign as self-perception. Why wouldn't they?....oh yeah....we all know that China has a significant social cohesion problem don't we....What a point to argue. The only places in that massive country where social cohesion is a problem is in the places that China occupies, like Tibet.....or tries to control that has different identities like Hong Kong and Taiwan. Why would a person fake allegiance to a country? Even economic immigrants aren't required to like a country to stay in it...... Regardless if someone spends any significant time with a person they are going to know. There are many ways a person shows allegiance. If you come from a family that's been here for generations it can be shown in the numbers of your family who do military service for the country. Because that says something about the historical family culture. It can also say something about the levels of allegiance within a community. For example, four times the numbers of Muslims went to Syria to fight than have signed up for the British military. That's a well known statistic for those who understand the problems that multiculturalism has given that community. It's shown in how you self identify.....what you call yourself, as I've said. It's can be shown in flying the flag at national events like sporting occasions or national days. It's can be shown in knowing the national anthem and singing it. It can be shown in knowing and enjoying your country's language, history and cultural rituals and appreciation of its institutions. But most of all it's known by what a person says about themselves and their identity over time and what they do. Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Apr 2018 1.18pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Ulysses 14 Apr 18 2.20pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Why would a person fake allegiance to a country? Even economic immigrants aren't required to like a country to stay in it...... Regardless if someone spends any significant time with a person they are going to know. There are many ways a person shows allegiance. If you come from a family that's been here for generations it can be shown in the numbers of your family who do military service for the country. Because that says something about the historical family culture. It can also say something about the levels of allegiance within a community. For example, four times the numbers of Muslims went to Syria to fight than have signed up for the British military. That's a well known statistic for those who understand the problems that multiculturalism has given that community. It's shown in how you self identify.....what you call yourself, as I've said. It's can be shown in flying the flag at national events like sporting occasions or national days. It's can be shown in knowing the national anthem and singing it. It can be shown in knowing and enjoying your country's language, history and cultural rituals and appreciation of its institutions. Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Apr 2018 12.49pm)
You raise some interesting points. Multiculturalism, of course, comes with issues and, in my opinion, British-born Muslims fighting in Syria absolutely don't deserve to be called 'British' or be allowed back in the country. I don't think anyone is disputing that in this thread. Yes, as I initially said: self-perception (self identity, as you call it, is probably the same thing) is massively important in showing allegiance. When Robinson/Lennon/Yaxley is shouting in his videos to Khan: "It's not your country, not your capital. You're part of an invasion into our country, Sadiq. It's our country" then I think some people might, unfortunately, have to resort to overcompensating their 'allegiance' to avoid being called an "invader". Incidentally, appreciating a country's institutions would probably encompass respecting the laws of your country - not something Lennon is particularly good at. When you say that you watch his videos and don't find anything that bad, what do you think of the overtones in his language here? Or, although utterly different context, if you heard someone shout this at Lewis Grabban, a Croydon-born Muslim, would you not challenge their words? Anyway, enjoy the match. (Especially now Chelsea have scored 3 since I started this!)
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Stirlingsays 15 Apr 18 3.37am | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Ulysses
You raise some interesting points. Multiculturalism, of course, comes with issues and, in my opinion, British-born Muslims fighting in Syria absolutely don't deserve to be called 'British' or be allowed back in the country. I don't think anyone is disputing that in this thread. Sure, but the point is reflective of the fact that some cultures are more resistant to integration than others. Hence socially conservative Islamic families are a problem. Politicians have worsened the situation with religious schools and turning a blind eye to radicalism and anti western attitudes. People can point to say socially conservative Jewish families and say they don't integrate, which is also true...but there are reasons why we don't see Jewish terrorist attacks in the UK and a significant factor is the reality that western principles coincide with Jewish religious principles far easier. Originally posted by Ulysses
Yes, as I initially said: self-perception (self identity, as you call it, is probably the same thing) is massively important in showing allegiance. Apart from disagreeing with him on politics and thinking he's a berk I have no issues acknowledging that Khan is British....though...again, it's the fault of diminishing claims...if he's born in a home country then why isn't he stating that first? But yes, Khan is British. Originally posted by Ulysses
When Robinson/Lennon/Yaxley is shouting in his videos to Khan: "It's not your country, not your capital. You're part of an invasion into our country, Sadiq. It's our country" then I think some people might, unfortunately, have to resort to overcompensating their 'allegiance' to avoid being called an "invader". Incidentally, appreciating a country's institutions would probably encompass respecting the laws of your country - not something Lennon is particularly good at. When you say that you watch his videos and don't find anything that bad, what do you think of the overtones in his language here? Or, although utterly different context, if you heard someone shout this at Lewis Grabban, a Croydon-born Muslim, would you not challenge their words? I know where Robinson is coming from when he speaks of 'invasion'. He is voicing frustration (which the usual suspects call racism) But anyone who looks at what London is now compared to what it was when I was growing up understands that the demographics have changed significantly. London is now more a migrant city than an English one. That annoys me too.....to be honest, when it comes to money, I'd rather have my capital back please.....a cap on immigration in general should work towards this. London is the capital of England.....England...meaning that if the majority of people within it aren't English or consider themselves English then what the feck is going on? How does that carry on down the line without problems? We have already seen a widening between London and the rest of the country in aspects like Brexit....it's not good. Still, I don't agree with Robinson. He goes too far with that statement on Khan. Families who have invested into this country and call themselves English/British....well, they may be politically against me (because for self interest reasons most minorities vote left) but I'm not interested in them. So now I have been given two statements has made that I don't support....that's fair enough, but I still think the reaction to him is vastly over exaggerated. I also agree with him on several points like free speech and being against the operation of Sharia in the country and the lax attitude towards activist Islam. As for Lennon/Yaxley.....I looked at the 'Britain first' website and their policies are actually a kind of religious national socialism. So while I might be against some of the people they campaign against I don't support the principles of their movement.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Hrolf The Ganger 15 Apr 18 11.28am | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Ulysses
I think that if you are born in Britain but have recent heritage from elsewhere, your personal allegiance might always be split. This will be different for different people with different circumstances but others can only judge such things by how they see you behave.
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Stirlingsays 15 Apr 18 11.51am | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
I think that if you are born in Britain but have recent heritage from elsewhere, your personal allegiance might always be split. This will be different for different people with different circumstances but others can only judge such things by how they see you behave. I think Goldsmith made this point. It's a valid one. Of course he was of course wrongly damned by both politicians and media. Whenever he is brought up he's referred to as having run a racist campaign. Apparently bringing up the realities he did was unacceptable. To me it just shows how fecked this country is and how social cohesion is only going to worsen. We need a right wing broadcaster in this country because the right wing voice has been silenced by the left on the TV. The BBC lies about being impartial and the Tory party under May has become like some kind of social justice feminist movement.....which is a joke to its grass roots. Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Apr 2018 12.03pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Registration is now on our new message board
To login with your existing username you will need to convert your account over to the new message board.
All images and text on this site are copyright © 1999-2024 The Holmesdale Online, unless otherwise stated.
Web Design by Guntrisoft Ltd.