Of course Maastricht ryles were bent, and continue to be bent. Italy and Greece were nowhere near 60% when the Euro was formed, and now both Germany and France are beyond that level too.

Why? Because the Eurozone banks took a big hit in 2008-10, and decided they could plough in to public money to avoid insolvency. Basically, one of the biggest robberies in history was carried out on a massive scale, one which continues to bring misery and suffering to millions, all because of the greed and cowardice of a corrupted elite.

In the case of Greece, German banks poured loans in to Southern countries in the years leading up to the crash. Millions of Greeks with high savings were persuaded to buy up German products, while their government was sold, among other things, submarines and fighter jets by the German state. Then, when the sh*t hit the fan, a 'bailout' of 40 billion is announced, almost all of which is immediately transferred from the government to the banks and bondholders, destroying social services and 'making an example' of a country which dares vote against the interest of the Troika (the words of Germany's finance minister).

This is the type of institution we are trying to negotiate with. Defend it against the parochial nationalism of most Breciteers by all means, but don't try to make out that it is any kind of progressive, liberal, democratic or even competent kind of institution.

If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

Thank goodness we are leaving, it's like being in a protection racket.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

I think the way to kill off the brexit is really just to desist, just not to continue.

Then all our gains, the veto single market membership the rebate no exit bill etc. are kept in particular our europpean rights citizenship and values.

Diplomacy, behind closed doors calls between heads of state that sort of thing.

Just quietly dropped.

The 'no deal' position is over H.

Yes God knows when that would be.

Of course the older generation will have snuffed it by then so will be honouring our treaties again.

That is actually more possible than you may think, Judging by member states contributions, as a guide to their clout in the EU, France are one of the big players, and are being put under increasing pressure to tighten their belts.

Reading between the lines, the popularity of the French Leader is waning on the back of him pleading to conform with the EU's edict on fiscal affairs, and we all now how fickle the French can be when being told to do something they don't like.

The far right in France is gaining popularity also in Germany (rather worringly) and the sole driving factor in these nutters gaining popularity is utter disdain at the mentalists from the EU trying to turn Europe into some kind of single currency socialist utopia.

My money is on Britain giving the EU a two fingered salute and saying no deal and shove your trade up your bum. Closely followed by France and that will be that.

"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"