What about economic democracy. A free enterprise economy is the true counterpart of democracy, it gives everyone a say. Everyone who goes into a shop and chooses one article instead of another is casting a vote in the economic ballot box which then goes on to influence production and investment to meet people's desires. In this continuous general election of the free economy all are enfranchised, we are voting all the time. Socialist economies do the opposite, they are designed to prevent people getting their way, no choice, goods and services are produced whether the consumer wants them or not - it is the government which decides. Choice is never unlimited of course, circumstances restrict or guide it, but the possibility of choice is always there so long as people are free to invest their efforts or money as they think fit. In a socialist society neither the investment of effort nor the the investment of money can be free - the government must decide, they know best.

I think a mixture works best. In the world of commerce economic capitalism is a proven success for pretty much the reasons you describe.....supply and demand....reward for giving the consumer what they want.

But within the civic space the politics of supply and demand don't work so well.....It makes no sense to apply the same logic to national armies or fire/ambulance/education services because these systems need to be working together not competing with each other.

Competition works when everyone can benefit from the increase in standards at the lowest price. But if that price is at a point where workers can't afford to feed their families and keep a roof over their heads then it also doesn't work.

Completely agree.

It's pretty much the worldview that republicans just haven't come to yet. ...though McCain, for example on healthcare seems to be going through some kind of transformation now his clock is ticking.

It's easy to point to the problems with socialism and to fear its advocates because those advocates seem so in denial of its problems.

That said Marx and Engles quite accurately pinpointed many of the flaws of unregulated capitalism and how it essentially eventually eats itself. We have seen those centuries old predictions come true several times in history already.

The resultant communism as the solution to the problems of rampant capitalism failed....mainly as it ignored what was successful in capitalism ...it thought it could throw the baby out with the bath water so to speak.

Socialism, as its watered down alternative, has not failed as dramatically but it hasn't fared well economically as the ruling system. But as an important mechanism within societies it's found its successful place fitting into those civic spaces where competition and the profit motive worsen rather than benefit us as a whole.....healthcare, education, prisons, police, armies and so on.

So here in Britain, we have a mixture of capitalism and socialism built in...in a sense capitalism is the brain and socialism the soul.

Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Sep 2017 11.58am)

Regulating capitalism is not socialism, it is regulating capitalism. All governments of whatever party in capitalist countries regulate. The are not regulating capitalism as such, they are regulating the activities of their societies to ensure the laws are obeyed. Such regulation should be kept to the minimum necessary to protect citizens and should avoid economic regulation.

Regulating capitalism is not socialism, it is regulating capitalism. All governments of whatever party in capitalist countries regulate. The are not regulating capitalism as such, they are regulating the activities of their societies to ensure the laws are obeyed. Such regulation should be kept to the minimum necessary to protect citizens and should avoid economic regulation.

An astute observation.

Of course there would still be strata in society no matter how technological the world is or how efficient the economy. I suspect the same sort of socialists will be complaining how tough they have it even if they are millionaires because the bloke down the road has a billion. There will always be jealousy and ambition which will be encouraged by commerce or else there would be no drive to buy anything other than what is necessary. There will also be a desire to be genetically superior which will be attainable with enough money.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (25 Sep 2017 1.02pm)