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 kennybrowns leftfoot  Reigate 23 May 17 2.56pm |
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Just an unbelievably awful atrocity and I genuinely feel for all those involved. I saw Teresa May speaking earlier... She made her usual speech about how amazing the emergency services are... I couldn't help but think she says this yet still insists on cutting them... The Met alone needs to save £400m over the next 5 years... I'm not trying score political points. I just don't see how we can even consider cutting emergency services after what we have witnessed in the last few months.
Don't waste your time with jealousy. Sometimes your ahead, sometimes your behind, the race is long. But in the end it's only with yourself!! |
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| Stirlingsays 23 May 17 2.59pm |
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Originally posted by kennybrowns leftfoot
Just an unbelievably awful atrocity and I genuinely feel for all those involved. I saw Teresa May speaking earlier... She made her usual speech about how amazing the emergency services are... I couldn't help but think she says this yet still insists on cutting them... The Met alone needs to save £400m over the next 5 years... I'm not trying score political points. I just don't see how we can even consider cutting emergency services after what we have witnessed in the last few months. Agree, as the population goes up there needs to be a proportional number of people in services to support it.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 23 May 17 3.00pm |
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Originally posted by Michaelawt85
Yep I get that. In practice it would never be allowed but I get where your coming from. Lots of them probably are monitored without them being aware otherwise all these other attacks wouldn't be stopped. There are "things" in place that in extremis, could be legally,(if not broadcast from the highest roof top)deployed, if the nations safety was in immediate danger. Ok so moving on to the next level. Once conversations are picked up or emails uncovered that they are either off shopping for bomb making equipment or knives to go on a killing spree then what. What do we do with the synpathiser element who identify with terrorists but aren't at the stage of actively planning. What do we do with them. Would involve court processes and building prisons to house them. Can you imprison people for their own thoughts behind closed doors to their friends. If the more liberal on here are to be believed it's only a tiny handful of people that we are talking about ???!!! I'm glad to see you are more realistic in that we could be talking hundreds if not thousands of people just waiting to have that little nudge that pushes them over the edge. The only way to avoid those nudges is to A) make the idea of being a terrorist so abhorrent to these people that it puts them off. or b) As I previously mentioned monitor, and then de programme the individuals.
You make a prison a prison, no phones no mobiles no letters in or out, no internet access complete comms black out, monitored all day everyday, if more than 3 are seen together they are immediately moved into isolation. I know it sounds draconian, but we are dealing with people who blow up kids, the gloves should be, if not already well and truly off. Lots of pockets of radical element of Islam in our prisons. The Westminster guy was allegedly radicalized whilst inside. How long do we keep them there. Forever? What happens when they are released. If imprisoned for any terror related offence, upon release I would tag them for a minimum of 5 years after release with certain arrears programmed as no go, leading to re-arrest and back in prison. Not a dig or anything as I have already said I most certainly don't have the answer to this. Just trying to think further down the road with each scenario It's time to get real. No more chances, I hate the ideas I have come up with, but enough is enough.
"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 23 May 17 3.06pm |
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Originally posted by dannyh
Honestly, I would ensure that a taskforce was put together to monitor every single Islamic meeting place in the UK. Phone calls, media, the full issue all covertly of course. It would be a massive undertaking but as I see it, it's the only way possible. Is it intrusive and against all that PC boll1ks, very probably, however you can't always play by the rules if you try boxing in a street fight and you get kicked in the knackers there's no point crying "that's not fair". It would be time consuming, expensive, and like I said a massive undertaking. But I can' think of any other way to completely stop innocent children being blown up over f*** all. Whilst that would arguably be somewhere those people would probably associate, it'd be difficult to identify them as such. MI-5 recruiting drive in the last 17 years has been very much for people with Muslim backgrounds, Arabic languages or with ties to nations where Islamist movements are known to operate (such as pakistan). They tend to be secretive in places where 'the law has ears'. That's probably how most get caught, because they're too trusting around other Muslims, especially ones who are vocal (who may or may not be on MI-5's payroll or turned lists). In terms of phones, they did that with the IRA, GCHQ monitor communications specifically to identify key words, phrases and cues, as they do with social media. Problem is, I suspect that groups like IS have led to increased sophistication among Islamists.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 23 May 17 3.07pm |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled. Quran, chapter 9(towbah),verse 29 I read a piece yesterday that said the Quran should be read as a whole rather than picking and choosing extracts to understand it fully. When read as a whole the extracts make better sense in context. The author other piece was complaining that neither jihadists nor their western critics see the Quran as a whole which is where the problem lies.
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 Michaelawt85 Bexley 23 May 17 3.07pm |
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Originally posted by dannyh
As I said to elegrande upthread tagging them. They would essentially have to be under house arrest permanently forever. They wouldn't be allowed anywhere that people gather in case they committed an attack. That's what we are talking about. They wouldn't be able to go to a shop or sports day at their child's school. That's the level we would be at.
When I was a young girl my Mother said to me.. You listen here kid you're CPFC |
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| Michaelawt85 Bexley 23 May 17 3.10pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
I read a piece yesterday that said the Quran should be read as a whole rather than picking and choosing extracts to understand it fully. When read as a whole the extracts make better sense in context. The author other piece was complaining that neither jihadists nor their western critics see the Quran as a whole which is where the problem lies. Anyone twisted or crazy enough could take any religious passage in isolation and hold it up to back up or justify their thinking or actions. All comes down to your thinking and interpretation
When I was a young girl my Mother said to me.. You listen here kid you're CPFC |
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| dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 23 May 17 3.10pm |
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Originally posted by Michaelawt85
As I said to elegrande upthread tagging them. They would essentially have to be under house arrest permanently forever. They wouldn't be allowed anywhere that people gather in case they committed an attack. That's what we are talking about. They wouldn't be able to go to a shop or sports day at their child's school. That's the level we would be at. Yep. That's why I said make the idea abhorrent.
"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'" |
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| Stirlingsays 23 May 17 3.15pm |
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Originally posted by Michaelawt85
Anyone twisted or crazy enough could take any religious passage in isolation and hold it up to back up or justify their thinking or actions. All comes down to your thinking and interpretation Yep but it's a numbers game.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Michaelawt85 Bexley 23 May 17 3.18pm |
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Originally posted by dannyh
Yep. That's why I said make the idea abhorrent. Hmm. Might get me out of the weekly shop and doing the school run though!
When I was a young girl my Mother said to me.. You listen here kid you're CPFC |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 23 May 17 3.25pm |
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Originally posted by Michaelawt85
Anyone twisted or crazy enough could take any religious passage in isolation and hold it up to back up or justify their thinking or actions. All comes down to your thinking and interpretation I found the article.
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Ouzo Dan  Behind you 23 May 17 3.37pm |
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It's fake news to say al Qaeda, Isis, boko haram etc cherry pick from the Quran, they laugh at people who claim this, these groups are about as clued up on the Qur'an as you can possibly get. the problem lies with the Qur'an specifically advocating violence & there is absolutely no way this is going to change.
The mountains are calling & I must go. |
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