Fair enough. Well he's getting all the credit for it on social media anyway!

2 of these attacks in Paris this year doesn't bode well for safety at the Euros next summer. Cities are going to be busy like this virtually every night for a month.

Another classic case of Hermit playing the man, not the ball. Perhaps all this is a little too much for you. Better get back to re-runs of Emmerdale

RIVERS OF BLOOD.......... Enoch Powell..... April 1968.

He was laughed at, shouted down even... and here we are nearly 50 years later talking about the very things he predicted happening in Paris.

Jimenez was correct at the beginning of this thread... we are at war........ with Islam Kermit.

Not just a few religious zealots or fundamentalists but with Islam itself... the whole ideology!

Islam calls itself the religion of peace, but the holy Koran directs it's followers to kill all infidels (unbelievers)... but we hear so often that most followers don't take this as a literal instruction. Why have it in there then? How many other religions have such a clear message in it's scriptures to direct people to kill? The Holy Bible says "Thou Shalt Not Kill"... I'm not clued up on all religions though, but I doubt any others encourage bloodshed?

Why do we tolerate the way Islam treats women as 2nd class citizens, forcing them to dress in Burkhas. denying them education and just being servants to the males? Female Genital Mutilation FFS!

Why are they living here in a culture that is alien to their preachings... no alcohol, gay and lesbians, non halal meat eaters?

These people that carried out tonight's atrocities were highly trained and part of a network that has been helped by the Paris/French Muslim community. They could not have carried out this level of terrorism without the so called moderates being aware of what was going down. Of course now we will hear from the Muslim Council of Great Britain (and/or their French counterparts)decrying the act and how it offends Muslims and their faith.

We are at war and we need to adopt the same mindset of Churchill during WWII and start interning again those Muslims preaching hate rather than releasing them because Liberal namby pambys think it's a crime to do so. We also need to sort out ISIS (or whatever they call themselves) killing and destroying people and historical religious property in Syria and everywhere else they operate around the globe. Shut down their websites glorifying their deeds and attempts to radicalise and recruit young minds.

Do we want blood on our streets?

Luckily we were not as stupid as the rest of Europe and have tightened our border controls and beefed up our security and intelligence capabilities.... even though the Liberal minded regard this an "affront to their civil liberties" !

I think this will see a rise in UKIP's popularity again as well as many turning to BNP/EDL type political parties as they sense the likes of Corbyn and Labour will not even be dismayed by this outrage and blame ourselves, whilst Cameron speaks rhetoric about reprisals but not have the balls to actually do anything.

I think Islam is like a wasp infestation - we are currently dealing with the problem by killing a few stray wasps with a rolled up newspaper. However we need to bring in the experts to destroy the nest!

Or.... we can do nothing and slowly allow our population to be engulfed by Muslims and surrender to Sharia Law.

It's our choice.

Edited by Hoof Hearted (14 Nov 2015 10.37am)

You're right, it is our choice.

It's always been our choice. Are we to continue not to learn from the mistakes of the past? Are we to continue to fester ignorance about a religion, a people, a race, which covers close to two billion people, castigating a belief which 20% of the world adheres to, purely because of what we see a select few of them doing?

What's worrying about your post isn't the explicit racism, the absolutely astonishing ignorance, the genocidal undertones, or the fascistic references. It's the fact that so many on here seem to think it's a well thought out post.

Let's begin by saying something that should be fairly obvious. A religion, like any belief, is not inherently evil, but can be adapted and interpreted in an infinite number of ways to suit the agenda of whatever group sees fit. Islam is a religion that has existed for nearly 2 millenia, spawning some of the greatest civilisations the world has ever known, providing us with incredible philosophy, literature, mathematics, language and technological advancements. Even today, Islam is the ideology which drives some of the greatest humanitarian and charitable efforts in the world, not to mention being the religion of choice for hundreds of millions of peaceful, tolerant and kind people.

Does the Koran order people to kill infidels? Perhaps, if you want to read it that way. But Mohammed also tells his followers that murdering one fellow man is like murdering the whole of mankind put together. Likewise, while the Bible does say 'thou shalt not kill', in Exodus we also find this gem: 'Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed.' As with the Koran, the bible has been and is still used to justify some of the most unspeakably awful atrocities in human history. Does this mean that Christianity is inherently evil? No, and likewise for Islam.

Secondly, you raise the point of backward Islamic societies, yet again your complete ignorance on the matter knows no bounds. Female genital mutilation is not a specifically Islamic issue: Ethiopia and Nigeria rank as two of the highest offenders in this case, both of which are predominantly Christian countries. As for women, there are more women in parliament in Iran than in Britain, while homosexuality has been legal in Muslim Turkey for a longer time than almost any country in Europe (185. You seem to ignore these aspects of Islam, why is that Hoof? Did it not fit in with your 'Islam is a bees nest' agenda? Were you completely blind to the benevolent side of the major religion in the world?

But yes, I'm sure I can tell what the answer is. I'm just some liberal PC lefty, afraid of 'telling it like it is', I'm blind to what IS are doing and it's people like me who make the situation worse. But hold on, if our policy is, once again, to bomb the region back in to the stone ages, why do we think this will be any more successful than the previous times we've tried it? We've had the gulf war, where future Taliban leaders were trained by US forces. We've had the Iraq war, where 500 000 civilians died and we failed miserably. We've tried bombing Libya, but have inadvertently funded and armed the very organisation behind yesterday's attacks. And yet, out of the rubble and poverty we have created, an even more alienated, even more disillusioned and radical group emerge, and we think the same tactics will work? It's laughable if it wasn't so tragic. Those on the left, and those with anything like a knowledge of the region, have been crying out for infrastructural development, educational support, and advanced diplomacy for decades, yet it looks like once again our pleas will be ignored. Likewise, while we condemn IS in the most comprehensive terms, we turn away the very refugees fleeing them with a wave of the hand.

But I'll end this post with one final remark. The rules on this forum state that any racist ethnically objectionable material will be punished. It is my belief that racism, and indeed all forms of prejudice, stem from ignorance, and what I hope I have proved is that from the almost exclusive ignorance of Hoof's post, conclusions have been reached which at best are ethnically objectionable (Not just a few religious zealots or fundamentalists but with Islam itself... the whole ideology!) and at worst advocating genocide (we need to bring in the experts to destroy the nest!). I'd like to see the mods adhere to the rules of their own forum and warn Hoof that such views aren't welcome on here, yet particularly considering one mod has actively supported his beliefs, I'd be surprised if any of them had the guts to do so.

You're right, it is our choice.

It's always been our choice. Are we to continue not to learn from the mistakes of the past? Are we to continue to fester ignorance about a religion, a people, a race, which covers close to two billion people, castigating a belief which 20% of the world adheres to, purely because of what we see a select few of them doing?

What's worrying about your post isn't the explicit racism, the absolutely astonishing ignorance, the genocidal undertones, or the fascistic references. It's the fact that so many on here seem to think it's a well thought out post.

Let's begin by saying something that should be fairly obvious. A religion, like any belief, is not inherently evil, but can be adapted and interpreted in an infinite number of ways to suit the agenda of whatever group sees fit. Islam is a religion that has existed for nearly 2 millenia, spawning some of the greatest civilisations the world has ever known, providing us with incredible philosophy, literature, mathematics, language and technological advancements. Even today, Islam is the ideology which drives some of the greatest humanitarian and charitable efforts in the world, not to mention being the religion of choice for hundreds of millions of peaceful, tolerant and kind people.

Does the Koran order people to kill infidels? Perhaps, if you want to read it that way. But Mohammed also tells his followers that murdering one fellow man is like murdering the whole of mankind put together. Likewise, while the Bible does say 'thou shalt not kill', in Exodus we also find this gem: 'Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed.' As with the Koran, the bible has been and is still used to justify some of the most unspeakably awful atrocities in human history. Does this mean that Christianity is inherently evil? No, and likewise for Islam.

Secondly, you raise the point of backward Islamic societies, yet again your complete ignorance on the matter knows no bounds. Female genital mutilation is not a specifically Islamic issue: Ethiopia and Nigeria rank as two of the highest offenders in this case, both of which are predominantly Christian countries. As for women, there are more women in parliament in Iran than in Britain, while homosexuality has been legal in Muslim Turkey for a longer time than almost any country in Europe (185. You seem to ignore these aspects of Islam, why is that Hoof? Did it not fit in with your 'Islam is a bees nest' agenda? Were you completely blind to the benevolent side of the major religion in the world?

But yes, I'm sure I can tell what the answer is. I'm just some liberal PC lefty, afraid of 'telling it like it is', I'm blind to what IS are doing and it's people like me who make the situation worse. But hold on, if our policy is, once again, to bomb the region back in to the stone ages, why do we think this will be any more successful than the previous times we've tried it? We've had the gulf war, where future Taliban leaders were trained by US forces. We've had the Iraq war, where 500 000 civilians died and we failed miserably. We've tried bombing Libya, but have inadvertently funded and armed the very organisation behind yesterday's attacks. And yet, out of the rubble and poverty we have created, an even more alienated, even more disillusioned and radical group emerge, and we think the same tactics will work? It's laughable if it wasn't so tragic. Those on the left, and those with anything like a knowledge of the region, have been crying out for infrastructural development, educational support, and advanced diplomacy for decades, yet it looks like once again our pleas will be ignored. Likewise, while we condemn IS in the most comprehensive terms, we turn away the very refugees fleeing them with a wave of the hand.

But I'll end this post with one final remark. The rules on this forum state that any racist ethnically objectionable material will be punished. It is my belief that racism, and indeed all forms of prejudice, stem from ignorance, and what I hope I have proved is that from the almost exclusive ignorance of Hoof's post, conclusions have been reached which at best are ethnically objectionable (Not just a few religious zealots or fundamentalists but with Islam itself... the whole ideology!) and at worst advocating genocide (we need to bring in the experts to destroy the nest!). I'd like to see the mods adhere to the rules of their own forum and warn Hoof that such views aren't welcome on here, yet particularly considering one mod has actively supported his beliefs, I'd be surprised if any of them had the guts to do so.