Anti immigration parties on the rise

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Anti immigration parties on the rise

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Stirlingsays 03 Sep 15 5.05pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 03 Sep 2015 9.17am Problem with the Syrians fighting IS is that many of them are Assad loyalists or allied with the Al Nasa Front (Al-Qaeda) etc. The US believes that its only really reliable ally on the ground are the Kurdish forces, which are backed by the Kurdish state in Iraq (but also being targeted by Turkey). One of the reasons we've seen a surge in refugees is due to the gains made by those groups against the non-Islamist rebels. The Kurds have done rather well actually. The free Syria Army are ok as well......Essentially whoever the coalition has supported with air power hasn't been defeated and have taken territory. You seem to think the moderates are 'doomed'. Frankly, I don't think the evidence suggests that at all. I don't want any Syrian here who has fought for Assad, nor a extreme religious group. That's why I'd only take people in who were vouched for by the Kurds or Christian groups in Syria.....But not the Christians who threw their lot in with Assad. Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Sep 2015 5.20pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

03 Sep 15 5.05pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 03 Sep 2015 9.17am

Problem with the Syrians fighting IS is that many of them are Assad loyalists or allied with the Al Nasa Front (Al-Qaeda) etc. The US believes that its only really reliable ally on the ground are the Kurdish forces, which are backed by the Kurdish state in Iraq (but also being targeted by Turkey). One of the reasons we've seen a surge in refugees is due to the gains made by those groups against the non-Islamist rebels.

The Kurds have done rather well actually.

The free Syria Army are ok as well......Essentially whoever the coalition has supported with air power hasn't been defeated and have taken territory.

You seem to think the moderates are 'doomed'. Frankly, I don't think the evidence suggests that at all.

I don't want any Syrian here who has fought for Assad, nor a extreme religious group.

That's why I'd only take people in who were vouched for by the Kurds or Christian groups in Syria.....But not the Christians who threw their lot in with Assad.

Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Sep 2015 5.20pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 03 Sep 15 5.07pm
Quote leggedstruggle at 03 Sep 2015 10.54am The Northern Ireland 'loyalist' terrorists are not particularly pro-British, they are anti-Catholic. They are Irish and want to live in a Protestant Ireland. They are anti-British in that they carried out terrorist acts contrary to British law and sometimes involving British targets. Their 'loyalties' do not lie with Britain but to a Protestant partition of Ireland. It is like saying 'British' Muslim extremists are pro-British because they want an Islamic state in Britain. The family down my father's side are Northern Irish living in Belfast. Let's just say that they are very pro British.....And that this attitude isn't exactly uncommon. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

03 Sep 15 5.07pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 03 Sep 2015 10.54am

The Northern Ireland 'loyalist' terrorists are not particularly pro-British, they are anti-Catholic. They are Irish and want to live in a Protestant Ireland. They are anti-British in that they carried out terrorist acts contrary to British law and sometimes involving British targets. Their 'loyalties' do not lie with Britain but to a Protestant partition of Ireland. It is like saying 'British' Muslim extremists are pro-British because they want an Islamic state in Britain.

The family down my father's side are Northern Irish living in Belfast.

Let's just say that they are very pro British.....And that this attitude isn't exactly uncommon.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 03 Sep 15 5.11pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 03 Sep 2015 1.21pm Ironically, UKIP Nige seems to think we should be taking in more Syrian Refugees, and has called on the Prime Minister to do so. We should never confuse immigration with Asylum. Yep.....It's about EU 'freedom of movement'.....It's about countries retaining control over their own borders. Asylum is a proud tradition.......Though we should be pretty careful who we let in. Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Sep 2015 5.12pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

03 Sep 15 5.11pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 03 Sep 2015 1.21pm

Ironically, UKIP Nige seems to think we should be taking in more Syrian Refugees, and has called on the Prime Minister to do so.

We should never confuse immigration with Asylum.

Yep.....It's about EU 'freedom of movement'.....It's about countries retaining control over their own borders.

Asylum is a proud tradition.......Though we should be pretty careful who we let in.

Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Sep 2015 5.12pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 03 Sep 15 5.15pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 03 Sep 2015 4.44pm I object to the notion of servitude to an antiquated form of governance by a hereditary elite. I'm happy to sing along with Jerusalem. I'm not anti monarchy.....Though it makes me a bit of a hypocrite on elitism.....Still. Jerusalem really should be England's national anthem. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

03 Sep 15 5.15pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 03 Sep 2015 4.44pm

I object to the notion of servitude to an antiquated form of governance by a hereditary elite.

I'm happy to sing along with Jerusalem.

I'm not anti monarchy.....Though it makes me a bit of a hypocrite on elitism.....Still.

Jerusalem really should be England's national anthem.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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bright&wright 03 Sep 15 5.17pm
Quote Kermit8 at 03 Sep 2015 4.56pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 03 Sep 2015 4.41pm Quote bright&wright at 03 Sep 2015 4.26pm If the shoe was on the other foot, the Syrian's wouldn't pss on us if we were on fire. Maybe we should take back the billions of pounds we provide in aid if they are going to bgger off over here anyway. Also, people shouting 'No Camp, No Camp' and demanding to be released from Hungary? Since when did desperate refugees start making demands? Come to bend-over Britain and I guarantee, backed up by hoards of liberal idiots, there'll be a march in London full of Syrians demanding 'no Terrace house, we want a Semi!'. Edited by bright&wright (03 Sep 2015 4.26pm) Just a caution, be careful with the rhetoric and ranting He's always been a right ranter, that one. I'm not going to argue with that. I like a good rant - Palace or non-Palace Talk. I do think I do it with a fair amount of reasoning and rationale though. You've actually put up a couple of posts of late that I've agreed with. I felt so disgusted with myself I went and did something else than post on here for a good month. I know you love following my posts though so I promise I won't go far. 'We are going to make a little bit of history here’ Mr. J. Ertl.
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bright&wright

03 Sep 15 5.17pm

Quote Kermit8 at 03 Sep 2015 4.56pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 03 Sep 2015 4.41pm

Quote bright&wright at 03 Sep 2015 4.26pm

If the shoe was on the other foot, the Syrian's wouldn't p*ss on us if we were on fire.

Maybe we should take back the billions of pounds we provide in aid if they are going to b*gger off over here anyway.

Also, people shouting 'No Camp, No Camp' and demanding to be released from Hungary? Since when did desperate refugees start making demands?

Come to bend-over Britain and I guarantee, backed up by hoards of liberal idiots, there'll be a march in London full of Syrians demanding 'no Terrace house, we want a Semi!'.

Edited by bright&wright (03 Sep 2015 4.26pm)

Just a caution, be careful with the rhetoric and ranting

He's always been a right ranter, that one.

I'm not going to argue with that. I like a good rant - Palace or non-Palace Talk. I do think I do it with a fair amount of reasoning and rationale though. You've actually put up a couple of posts of late that I've agreed with. I felt so disgusted with myself I went and did something else than post on here for a good month.

I know you love following my posts though so I promise I won't go far.

'We are going to make a little bit of history here’ Mr. J. Ertl.

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Stirlingsays 03 Sep 15 5.17pm
Quote dannyh at 03 Sep 2015 2.53pm No more of a joke than your opinion, no one said it was an easy choice to make, but make it they did. How do you think WW2 would have panned out if it weren’t for the French resistance? Hunted down and shot on sight, and that was the lucky ones, did they flee their own country ? nope they stayed and fought. I’m just saying there are two view points not just yours. I'm not saying it's not a s***ty situation to be in, nor am I dehumanising people (love to know how you worked that out) but is gathering up your family and getting on a dodgy tub and trusting your luck (and life) to a dodgy pirate any better than staying put ? Jamie made a good point, there are over a million refugees in bordering countries, what if they got together and tackled ISIS a million strong is bigger than our Army ten times over ! It would seem that when a country destabilises in the Middle Eastern part of the globe, Europe has to carry the can for it? I don't recall many Syrians risking life and limb to get to Britain during the Blitz to help us out, in fact we had to draw upon common wealth countries to keep our necks out of the brown stuff, Syria and the Middle East not so much. And as for you accusation that "our bad decision making as nations we have done more to help the ISIS of today come into being" is utterly wrong and as daft as saying it was Poland’s fault Hitler invaded for having to many Jews. ISIS are a fanatical bunch of loons we've always had them bleating on about hard done by this, and Allah that, HAMAS in 1986 proceeded by the Muslim Brother hood formed 1928, I could go on, but it's always been there. Seconded. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

03 Sep 15 5.17pm

Quote dannyh at 03 Sep 2015 2.53pm

No more of a joke than your opinion, no one said it was an easy choice to make, but make it they did. How do you think WW2 would have panned out if it weren’t for the French resistance? Hunted down and shot on sight, and that was the lucky ones, did they flee their own country ? nope they stayed and fought. I’m just saying there are two view points not just yours.

I'm not saying it's not a s***ty situation to be in, nor am I dehumanising people (love to know how you worked that out) but is gathering up your family and getting on a dodgy tub and trusting your luck (and life) to a dodgy pirate any better than staying put ?

Jamie made a good point, there are over a million refugees in bordering countries, what if they got together and tackled ISIS a million strong is bigger than our Army ten times over !

It would seem that when a country destabilises in the Middle Eastern part of the globe, Europe has to carry the can for it? I don't recall many Syrians risking life and limb to get to Britain during the Blitz to help us out, in fact we had to draw upon common wealth countries to keep our necks out of the brown stuff, Syria and the Middle East not so much.

And as for you accusation that "our bad decision making as nations we have done more to help the ISIS of today come into being" is utterly wrong and as daft as saying it was Poland’s fault Hitler invaded for having to many Jews.

ISIS are a fanatical bunch of loons we've always had them bleating on about hard done by this, and Allah that, HAMAS in 1986 proceeded by the Muslim Brother hood formed 1928, I could go on, but it's always been there.

Seconded.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 03 Sep 15 5.18pm
Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 03 Sep 2015 5.04pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 03 Sep 2015 3.40pm Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 03 Sep 2015 2.26pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 03 Sep 2015 1.21pm Ironically, UKIP Nige seems to think we should be taking in more Syrian Refugees, and has called on the Prime Minister to do so. We should never confuse immigration with Asylum. A key point. Their needs to be a better processing of migrants/refugees. Those that really need help should be prioritised. One of the problems with this is that we are bound by rules that say we must allow free movement from European countries and have also had large numbers of economic migrants arriving from elsewhere. This means that, to many, refugees seem like they are adding to a growing problem rather than being seen as victims and statistically insignificant. They are being demonised because of years of excessive, poorly managed immigration which has turned a large number of the voting public against it. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (03 Sep 2015 2.26pm) A valid point of course is that had we not agreed to the EU right to work, taking in a large number of refugees wouldn't be an issue. Problem of course is that the driver behind the EU working laws, was corporate interests, who were sponsors of both the Conservative and Labour party of the time, so there never was a chance of us not signing up. Exactly. One wonders if the average man's standard of living has benefited as much as commerce and finance. It's hard to say, however it is likely that the already rich have benefited a lot more and that the average man was not the first thing on their minds. Altruism is unlikely to be a factor in any of this I'm afraid. But all the cash trickles down Doesn't it?
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 03 Sep 15 5.18pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 03 Sep 2015 5.04pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 03 Sep 2015 3.40pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 03 Sep 2015 2.26pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 03 Sep 2015 1.21pm

Ironically, UKIP Nige seems to think we should be taking in more Syrian Refugees, and has called on the Prime Minister to do so.

We should never confuse immigration with Asylum.

A key point. Their needs to be a better processing of migrants/refugees. Those that really need help should be prioritised.
One of the problems with this is that we are bound by rules that say we must allow free movement from European countries and have also had large numbers of economic migrants arriving from elsewhere. This means that, to many, refugees seem like they are adding to a growing problem rather than being seen as victims and statistically insignificant.
They are being demonised because of years of excessive, poorly managed immigration which has turned a large number of the voting public against it.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (03 Sep 2015 2.26pm)

A valid point of course is that had we not agreed to the EU right to work, taking in a large number of refugees wouldn't be an issue.

Problem of course is that the driver behind the EU working laws, was corporate interests, who were sponsors of both the Conservative and Labour party of the time, so there never was a chance of us not signing up.

Exactly.

One wonders if the average man's standard of living has benefited as much as commerce and finance. It's hard to say, however it is likely that the already rich have benefited a lot more and that the average man was not the first thing on their minds.

Altruism is unlikely to be a factor in any of this I'm afraid.

But all the cash trickles down Doesn't it?

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Stirlingsays 03 Sep 15 5.22pm
Quote nickgusset at 03 Sep 2015 5.18pm But all the cash trickles down Doesn't it? 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

03 Sep 15 5.22pm

Quote nickgusset at 03 Sep 2015 5.18pm

But all the cash trickles down Doesn't it?

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 03 Sep 15 5.22pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 03 Sep 2015 5.17pm Quote dannyh at 03 Sep 2015 2.53pm No more of a joke than your opinion, no one said it was an easy choice to make, but make it they did. How do you think WW2 would have panned out if it weren’t for the French resistance? Hunted down and shot on sight, and that was the lucky ones, did they flee their own country ? nope they stayed and fought. I’m just saying there are two view points not just yours. I'm not saying it's not a s***ty situation to be in, nor am I dehumanising people (love to know how you worked that out) but is gathering up your family and getting on a dodgy tub and trusting your luck (and life) to a dodgy pirate any better than staying put ? Jamie made a good point, there are over a million refugees in bordering countries, what if they got together and tackled ISIS a million strong is bigger than our Army ten times over ! It would seem that when a country destabilises in the Middle Eastern part of the globe, Europe has to carry the can for it? I don't recall many Syrians risking life and limb to get to Britain during the Blitz to help us out, in fact we had to draw upon common wealth countries to keep our necks out of the brown stuff, Syria and the Middle East not so much. And as for you accusation that "our bad decision making as nations we have done more to help the ISIS of today come into being" is utterly wrong and as daft as saying it was Poland’s fault Hitler invaded for having to many Jews. ISIS are a fanatical bunch of loons we've always had them bleating on about hard done by this, and Allah that, HAMAS in 1986 proceeded by the Muslim Brother hood formed 1928, I could go on, but it's always been there. Seconded. Is that the same HAMAS that Israel were proactive in setting up?
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 03 Sep 15 5.22pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 03 Sep 2015 5.17pm

Quote dannyh at 03 Sep 2015 2.53pm

Jamie made a good point, there are over a million refugees in bordering countries, what if they got together and tackled ISIS a million strong is bigger than our Army ten times over !

Seconded.

Is that the same HAMAS that Israel were proactive in setting up?

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oldcodger 03 Sep 15 5.23pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 03 Sep 2015 4.59pm Quote oldcodger at 03 Sep 2015 8.52am Are they the only two options then? Fighting in war or going somewhere for a 'cushy life'. Nice choice of language. Maybe by virtue that many actually risk their lives to get here too, they want to avoid war AND work hard. Maybe that's an option. With yours and the other blokes reply it's all about trying to debase these people so you don't have to care about them. "doubt their worth", "free loaders the lot of them", "cushy life". Again, I'd rather support those who stand and fight rather than the kind of cowardly young men you support. You said nothing about the people standing in Syria fighting IS.....Instead it's all about supporting those that run. Though if I had the choice I'd probably swap you with a vouched for Kurd. Hopefully a Syrian family will move next door to you. They can tell you how they've literally made life and death choices to secure the future of their family, and you can impress them with how many arm pit farts you can do ... while pontificating about their worth as human beings of course. Edited by oldcodger (03 Sep 2015 5.39pm)
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oldcodger

03 Sep 15 5.23pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 03 Sep 2015 4.59pm

Quote oldcodger at 03 Sep 2015 8.52am

Are they the only two options then? Fighting in war or going somewhere for a 'cushy life'. Nice choice of language. Maybe by virtue that many actually risk their lives to get here too, they want to avoid war AND work hard. Maybe that's an option.

With yours and the other blokes reply it's all about trying to debase these people so you don't have to care about them. "doubt their worth", "free loaders the lot of them", "cushy life".

Again, I'd rather support those who stand and fight rather than the kind of cowardly young men you support.

You said nothing about the people standing in Syria fighting IS.....Instead it's all about supporting those that run.

Though if I had the choice I'd probably swap you with a vouched for Kurd.

Hopefully a Syrian family will move next door to you. They can tell you how they've literally made life and death choices to secure the future of their family, and you can impress them with how many arm pit farts you can do ... while pontificating about their worth as human beings of course.

Edited by oldcodger (03 Sep 2015 5.39pm)

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oldcodger 03 Sep 15 5.25pm
Quote bright&wright at 03 Sep 2015 4.26pm If the shoe was on the other foot, the Syrian's wouldn't pss on us if we were on fire. Maybe we should take back the billions of pounds we provide in aid if they are going to bgger off over here anyway. Also, people shouting 'No Camp, No Camp' and demanding to be released from Hungary? Since when did desperate refugees start making demands? Come to bend-over Britain and I guarantee, backed up by hoards of liberal idiots, there'll be a march in London full of Syrians demanding 'no Terrace house, we want a Semi!'. Edited by bright&wright (03 Sep 2015 4.26pm) Of course that's exactly what will happen. Thanks. Yes.
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oldcodger

03 Sep 15 5.25pm

Quote bright&wright at 03 Sep 2015 4.26pm

If the shoe was on the other foot, the Syrian's wouldn't p*ss on us if we were on fire.

Maybe we should take back the billions of pounds we provide in aid if they are going to b*gger off over here anyway.

Also, people shouting 'No Camp, No Camp' and demanding to be released from Hungary? Since when did desperate refugees start making demands?

Come to bend-over Britain and I guarantee, backed up by hoards of liberal idiots, there'll be a march in London full of Syrians demanding 'no Terrace house, we want a Semi!'.

Edited by bright&wright (03 Sep 2015 4.26pm)

Of course that's exactly what will happen. Thanks. Yes.

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Stirlingsays 03 Sep 15 5.34pm
Quote nickgusset at 03 Sep 2015 5.22pm Is that the same HAMAS that Israel were proactive in setting up? You mean the religious charity organization that opposed the PLO. Not an organisation that was actually attacking Israel at the time. Still, don't let the facts get in the way of a good sound bite eh Nick. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

03 Sep 15 5.34pm

Quote nickgusset at 03 Sep 2015 5.22pm

Is that the same HAMAS that Israel were proactive in setting up?

You mean the religious charity organization that opposed the PLO. Not an organisation that was actually attacking Israel at the time.

Still, don't let the facts get in the way of a good sound bite eh Nick.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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