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Labour Leadership - Bald men fighting over a comb?
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 fed up eagle  Between Horley, Surrey and Preston... 23 Jul 15 10.28am |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 23 Jul 2015 9.37am
Quote leggedstruggle at 22 Jul 2015 9.32pm
Quote nickgusset at 22 Jul 2015 7.50pm
What is he going to spend higher taxes on? as for green energy. You think that throwing money at the NHS and education will solve all the problems. Money has been thrown at both for years with little effect. What solar and wind power have in common is that they can only produce a fraction of the power needed and cost a great deal to build. Do you think that just cutting spending will provide a solution. Of course Solar and Wind power are less efficient and will cost more. That isn't the real issue, the real issue lies with the actual environmental consequences of oil and fossil fuels, and the socio-political impact of fossil fuel dependency. Only idiots believe alternative fuels are ever going to be cheaper. The difference of course, is that at source they have minimal environmental impact, don't cost lives to dig out the ground, or wars to secure, they don't occasionally spill out the side of tankers, they won't run out or get affected by supply factors and the pollution factor is negligible. Its not an economic argument, its an environmental one. Easily accessed oil is slowly being tapped out.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 23 Jul 15 11.10am |
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Quote fed up eagle at 23 Jul 2015 10.28am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 23 Jul 2015 9.37am
Quote leggedstruggle at 22 Jul 2015 9.32pm
Quote nickgusset at 22 Jul 2015 7.50pm
What is he going to spend higher taxes on? as for green energy. You think that throwing money at the NHS and education will solve all the problems. Money has been thrown at both for years with little effect. What solar and wind power have in common is that they can only produce a fraction of the power needed and cost a great deal to build. Do you think that just cutting spending will provide a solution. Of course Solar and Wind power are less efficient and will cost more. That isn't the real issue, the real issue lies with the actual environmental consequences of oil and fossil fuels, and the socio-political impact of fossil fuel dependency. Only idiots believe alternative fuels are ever going to be cheaper. The difference of course, is that at source they have minimal environmental impact, don't cost lives to dig out the ground, or wars to secure, they don't occasionally spill out the side of tankers, they won't run out or get affected by supply factors and the pollution factor is negligible. Its not an economic argument, its an environmental one. Easily accessed oil is slowly being tapped out.
No, its generally pumped out of the ground from very long dead lifeforms. The argument for 'Green' and alternative engery isn't economical, its about environmental sustainability of a rapidly increasing world population, dependent on a finite resource that is going to increasingly poison the planet. Just ignoring the problems of fossil fuel dependence and an increasing demand on a finite resource, because its inconvenient, isn't going to benefit future generations. Fortunately, I won't live to see it, and I have no children (and nor will I).
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 23 Jul 15 11.15am |
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Quote Hoof Hearted at 23 Jul 2015 10.15am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 22 Jul 2015 12.01pm
If Labour had won the Scottish seats, no one would have won the election.
The Conservatives won an electable majority on their own to govern. Giving Labour another 51 seats would change nothing. Opps quite right - I misread the number. I thought the difference was a lot closer. 12 seats above the majority, not by 12 seats. Sorry.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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Come to Daddy  23 Jul 15 11.48am |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 23 Jul 2015 11.15am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 23 Jul 2015 10.15am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 22 Jul 2015 12.01pm
If Labour had won the Scottish seats, no one would have won the election.
The Conservatives won an electable majority on their own to govern. Giving Labour another 51 seats would change nothing. Opps quite right - I misread the number. I thought the difference was a lot closer. 12 seats above the majority, not by 12 seats. Sorry. But if they had then the whole "Vote Labour, get the SNP" thing wouldn't have gained a foothold so the rest of the result would probably not have been identical.
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| Hoof Hearted 23 Jul 15 5.03pm | |
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Quote Come to Daddy at 23 Jul 2015 11.48am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 23 Jul 2015 11.15am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 23 Jul 2015 10.15am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 22 Jul 2015 12.01pm
If Labour had won the Scottish seats, no one would have won the election.
The Conservatives won an electable majority on their own to govern. Giving Labour another 51 seats would change nothing. Opps quite right - I misread the number. I thought the difference was a lot closer. 12 seats above the majority, not by 12 seats. Sorry. But if they had then the whole "Vote Labour, get the SNP" thing wouldn't have gained a foothold so the rest of the result would probably not have been identical.
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 Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 23 Jul 15 5.18pm |
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Quote Hoof Hearted at 23 Jul 2015 5.03pm
Quote Come to Daddy at 23 Jul 2015 11.48am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 23 Jul 2015 11.15am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 23 Jul 2015 10.15am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 22 Jul 2015 12.01pm
If Labour had won the Scottish seats, no one would have won the election.
The Conservatives won an electable majority on their own to govern. Giving Labour another 51 seats would change nothing. Opps quite right - I misread the number. I thought the difference was a lot closer. 12 seats above the majority, not by 12 seats. Sorry. But if they had then the whole "Vote Labour, get the SNP" thing wouldn't have gained a foothold so the rest of the result would probably not have been identical.
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| DanH SW2 23 Jul 15 5.21pm |
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Quote Cucking Funt at 23 Jul 2015 5.18pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 23 Jul 2015 5.03pm
Quote Come to Daddy at 23 Jul 2015 11.48am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 23 Jul 2015 11.15am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 23 Jul 2015 10.15am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 22 Jul 2015 12.01pm
If Labour had won the Scottish seats, no one would have won the election.
The Conservatives won an electable majority on their own to govern. Giving Labour another 51 seats would change nothing. Opps quite right - I misread the number. I thought the difference was a lot closer. 12 seats above the majority, not by 12 seats. Sorry. But if they had then the whole "Vote Labour, get the SNP" thing wouldn't have gained a foothold so the rest of the result would probably not have been identical.
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| Sedlescombe Sedlescombe 23 Jul 15 5.23pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 23 Jul 2015 11.15am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 23 Jul 2015 10.15am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 22 Jul 2015 12.01pm
If Labour had won the Scottish seats, no one would have won the election.
The Conservatives won an electable majority on their own to govern. Giving Labour another 51 seats would change nothing. Opps quite right - I misread the number. I thought the difference was a lot closer. 12 seats above the majority, not by 12 seats. Sorry.
I was a lot closer. Tories 37% of the vote Labour 31%. Hardly a landside
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| Stirlingsays 23 Jul 15 5.26pm |
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Quote Sedlescombe at 23 Jul 2015 5.23pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 23 Jul 2015 11.15am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 23 Jul 2015 10.15am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 22 Jul 2015 12.01pm
If Labour had won the Scottish seats, no one would have won the election.
The Conservatives won an electable majority on their own to govern. Giving Labour another 51 seats would change nothing. Opps quite right - I misread the number. I thought the difference was a lot closer. 12 seats above the majority, not by 12 seats. Sorry.
I was a lot closer. Tories 37% of the vote Labour 31%. Hardly a landside Considering the fact that if they hadn't existed that most of Ukip's votes would have gone to the Tories....the underlying tale is that this was a massive rejection of Labour at a time where the working class isn't doing that well.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Sedlescombe Sedlescombe 23 Jul 15 5.31pm |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 23 Jul 2015 5.26pm
Quote Sedlescombe at 23 Jul 2015 5.23pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 23 Jul 2015 11.15am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 23 Jul 2015 10.15am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 22 Jul 2015 12.01pm
If Labour had won the Scottish seats, no one would have won the election.
The Conservatives won an electable majority on their own to govern. Giving Labour another 51 seats would change nothing. Opps quite right - I misread the number. I thought the difference was a lot closer. 12 seats above the majority, not by 12 seats. Sorry.
I was a lot closer. Tories 37% of the vote Labour 31%. Hardly a landside Considering the fact that if they hadn't existed that most of Ukip's votes would have gone to the Tories....the underlying tale is that this was a massive rejection of Labour at a time where the working class isn't doing that well.
Your second point is undoubtedly true. My point was that there is all to play for if only Labour can elect a leader and re-find its identity as something other than nice-tories
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| Hoof Hearted 23 Jul 15 5.46pm | |
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Quote Sedlescombe at 23 Jul 2015 5.31pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 23 Jul 2015 5.26pm
Quote Sedlescombe at 23 Jul 2015 5.23pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 23 Jul 2015 11.15am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 23 Jul 2015 10.15am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 22 Jul 2015 12.01pm
If Labour had won the Scottish seats, no one would have won the election.
The Conservatives won an electable majority on their own to govern. Giving Labour another 51 seats would change nothing. Opps quite right - I misread the number. I thought the difference was a lot closer. 12 seats above the majority, not by 12 seats. Sorry.
I was a lot closer. Tories 37% of the vote Labour 31%. Hardly a landside Considering the fact that if they hadn't existed that most of Ukip's votes would have gone to the Tories....the underlying tale is that this was a massive rejection of Labour at a time where the working class isn't doing that well.
Your second point is undoubtedly true. My point was that there is all to play for if only Labour can elect a leader and re-find its identity as something other than nice-tories
If Labour was the only option on the voting slip I would have spoiled my paper. Labour are a busted flush whoever they vote in as leader, but if I had to choose one of the current options then Burnham would offer the most hope. Corbyn would be as bad a choice as Michael Foot was.
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| ghosteagle 23 Jul 15 5.52pm |
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Quote Sedlescombe at 23 Jul 2015 5.31pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 23 Jul 2015 5.26pm
Quote Sedlescombe at 23 Jul 2015 5.23pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 23 Jul 2015 11.15am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 23 Jul 2015 10.15am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 22 Jul 2015 12.01pm
If Labour had won the Scottish seats, no one would have won the election.
The Conservatives won an electable majority on their own to govern. Giving Labour another 51 seats would change nothing. Opps quite right - I misread the number. I thought the difference was a lot closer. 12 seats above the majority, not by 12 seats. Sorry.
I was a lot closer. Tories 37% of the vote Labour 31%. Hardly a landside Considering the fact that if they hadn't existed that most of Ukip's votes would have gone to the Tories....the underlying tale is that this was a massive rejection of Labour at a time where the working class isn't doing that well.
Your second point is undoubtedly true. My point was that there is all to play for if only Labour can elect a leader and re-find its identity as something other than nice-tories I think you are spot-on, the faliure of Labour at the GE was mainly due to it's attempts to paint itself as tory-lite. The present leadership battle is interesting because there seems to be such a disconnect between the MPs and the wider party members, who a clearly agitating for a move back to the left. I would also add that blairs speech the other day has only increased support for Corbyn.
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