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willardnz Wanganui 08 Aug 14 4.24am | |
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...and appear to have funded ISIS since 2007.. [Link]
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legaleagle 08 Aug 14 9.15am | |
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If so, it would be a repeat of US funding of jihadists against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan all over again. Let the genie out of the bottle, thinking its your malleable tool and the blowback later knocks you out of the room. Classic short termism. But we are where we are. Do not overlook the role in laying the ground of Saudi funding of the global spread of Wahhabism, a very puritanical and extreme form of Islam, underpinning the religious ideology of groups like ISIS.Its massive, including here. These links are from 2007and 2013.Not a lot has changed and it explains the ground shift worldwide which lays an ideological foundation for people going off to join ISIS from overseas. and in terms of Saudis laying the groundwork for ISIS more directly: Edited by legaleagle (08 Aug 2014 9.31am)
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jamiemartin721 Reading 08 Aug 14 3.53pm | |
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Quote legaleagle at 08 Aug 2014 9.15am
If so, it would be a repeat of US funding of jihadists against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan all over again. Let the genie out of the bottle, thinking its your malleable tool and the blowback later knocks you out of the room. Classic short termism. But we are where we are. Do not overlook the role in laying the ground of Saudi funding of the global spread of Wahhabism, a very puritanical and extreme form of Islam, underpinning the religious ideology of groups like ISIS.Its massive, including here. These links are from 2007and 2013.Not a lot has changed and it explains the ground shift worldwide which lays an ideological foundation for people going off to join ISIS from overseas. and in terms of Saudis laying the groundwork for ISIS more directly: Edited by legaleagle (08 Aug 2014 9.31am) Kuwait and Saudi probably see a Sunni ISIS power influence in Iraq as preferable to a Shia one, that has close ties to Iran. The Iranian backed Shia groups hold a lot of sway in Iraq, and ISIS represent a means of reducing that. Similarly, an end of Syrian influence in the middle east favours the Saudi's as well.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 08 Aug 14 4.09pm | |
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Quote legaleagle at 08 Aug 2014 9.15am
If so, it would be a repeat of US funding of jihadists against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan all over again. Let the genie out of the bottle, thinking its your malleable tool and the blowback later knocks you out of the room. Classic short termism. But we are where we are. That wasn't quite as clear back then, the Mujahedeen fighting against the Soviets were a number of factions. The US and UK, were largely supporting the Mujadedeen Resistance movements, whilst the foreign Jyhadist groups operated more or less separately (backed by countries like Kuwait, Saudi Arabia etc). There was some interaction of those groups largely through the pakistani resources of operation cyclone, but there was a difference and seperation between the Mujahedeen and Foreign Jihadists, who would become groups like Al-Qaeda. The Taliban were a faction within the Mujahedeen groups, but their significance as a power during the time of the Afghan war was almost non-existent. The rise of the Taliban was for the most part after the Soviet withdraw and sprang up largely in response to the warlords in the Pushtan regions. Realistically, the US had little involvement with the foreign jihadist movement, Osama Bin Laden etc or the Taliban.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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RainhamEagle Bermondsey 08 Aug 14 6.07pm | |
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'Kin ell, they're beheading Christian children now.
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Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 08 Aug 14 10.08pm | |
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Quote RainhamEagle at 08 Aug 2014 6.07pm
'Kin ell, they're beheading Christian children now.
Pro USA & Israel |
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legaleagle 08 Aug 14 10.32pm | |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 08 Aug 2014 4.09pm
Quote legaleagle at 08 Aug 2014 9.15am
If so, it would be a repeat of US funding of jihadists against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan all over again. Let the genie out of the bottle, thinking its your malleable tool and the blowback later knocks you out of the room. Classic short termism. But we are where we are. That wasn't quite as clear back then, the Mujahedeen fighting against the Soviets were a number of factions. The US and UK, were largely supporting the Mujadedeen Resistance movements, whilst the foreign Jyhadist groups operated more or less separately (backed by countries like Kuwait, Saudi Arabia etc). There was some interaction of those groups largely through the pakistani resources of operation cyclone, but there was a difference and seperation between the Mujahedeen and Foreign Jihadists, who would become groups like Al-Qaeda. The Taliban were a faction within the Mujahedeen groups, but their significance as a power during the time of the Afghan war was almost non-existent. The rise of the Taliban was for the most part after the Soviet withdraw and sprang up largely in response to the warlords in the Pushtan regions. Realistically, the US had little involvement with the foreign jihadist movement, Osama Bin Laden etc or the Taliban. I agree with you it is complex. But I would say that (1)its far from clear the USA (directly or indirectly) weren't encouraging the Jihadi groups (even if the jihadis were unaware) see, for example 1998 pre 9/11 link from NBC (hardly an anti US source): and (2) we ,at the very least, did not hinder their development and arguably were happy for them to develop so long as they seemed a useful tool in keeping with our overall strategic plan at the time. BBC News website 26 September 2001: "Britain's relationship with Bin Laden dates back to the 1980s when Whitehall and Washington pumped billions of dollars to Muslim fighters fighting the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. Arab volunteers recall fondly passing through Britain en route to Bin Laden's processing centre near the Afghan front. With victory against the Soviets in 1989, many of the "Afghan Arabs" headed back to Britain. Cash for Jihad Like Beirut in the 1970s, London became a safe haven from which to broaden the Jihad armed struggle from Afghanistan to the secular regimes of the Arab world. Libyan, Tunisian and Egyptian Islamists, many of them ex-fighters, all made London their base and some 2,000 Middle East dissidents a year poured into Britain. " There is zero chance MI5 and MI6 did not know exactly what was going on and could have been instructed to clamp down any time had their political bosses wished. Edited by legaleagle (08 Aug 2014 10.35pm)
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Kermit8 Hevon 08 Aug 14 10.56pm | |
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Now ISIS isn't ISIS is IS.
Big chest and massive boobs |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 08 Aug 14 11.56pm | |
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Quote legaleagle at 08 Aug 2014 10.32pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 08 Aug 2014 4.09pm
Quote legaleagle at 08 Aug 2014 9.15am
If so, it would be a repeat of US funding of jihadists against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan all over again. Let the genie out of the bottle, thinking its your malleable tool and the blowback later knocks you out of the room. Classic short termism. But we are where we are. That wasn't quite as clear back then, the Mujahedeen fighting against the Soviets were a number of factions. The US and UK, were largely supporting the Mujadedeen Resistance movements, whilst the foreign Jyhadist groups operated more or less separately (backed by countries like Kuwait, Saudi Arabia etc). There was some interaction of those groups largely through the pakistani resources of operation cyclone, but there was a difference and seperation between the Mujahedeen and Foreign Jihadists, who would become groups like Al-Qaeda. The Taliban were a faction within the Mujahedeen groups, but their significance as a power during the time of the Afghan war was almost non-existent. The rise of the Taliban was for the most part after the Soviet withdraw and sprang up largely in response to the warlords in the Pushtan regions. Realistically, the US had little involvement with the foreign jihadist movement, Osama Bin Laden etc or the Taliban. I agree with you it is complex. But I would say that (1)its far from clear the USA (directly or indirectly) weren't encouraging the Jihadi groups (even if the jihadis were unaware) see, for example 1998 pre 9/11 link from NBC (hardly an anti US source): and (2) we ,at the very least, did not hinder their development and arguably were happy for them to develop so long as they seemed a useful tool in keeping with our overall strategic plan at the time. BBC News website 26 September 2001: "Britain's relationship with Bin Laden dates back to the 1980s when Whitehall and Washington pumped billions of dollars to Muslim fighters fighting the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. Arab volunteers recall fondly passing through Britain en route to Bin Laden's processing centre near the Afghan front. With victory against the Soviets in 1989, many of the "Afghan Arabs" headed back to Britain. Cash for Jihad Like Beirut in the 1970s, London became a safe haven from which to broaden the Jihad armed struggle from Afghanistan to the secular regimes of the Arab world. Libyan, Tunisian and Egyptian Islamists, many of them ex-fighters, all made London their base and some 2,000 Middle East dissidents a year poured into Britain. " There is zero chance MI5 and MI6 did not know exactly what was going on and could have been instructed to clamp down any time had their political bosses wished. Edited by legaleagle (08 Aug 2014 10.35pm) Certain, the part on the role of the UK is something known so well in Jyhadist circles that these movements actually forbid attacks that might draw the UK's wrath. How far the CIA were aware of what the pakistani's were distributing from their funds to the Islamist groups isn't clear, and certainly Al-Qaeda weren't accepting weapons and cash from US sources after 1990 but there's almost certainly some crossover, as the pakistani' ISA were being partially funded by the CIA and funnelling weapons, training and cash into the Mujahedeens' and likely much of that was going through Bin Ladens group (which was more involved in logisitics than the conflict). Indeed prior to the stationing of troops in Saudi Arabia, Al-Qaeda probably weren't even that anti-US. Its really post Gulf war that the escalation begins with the US and Al-Qaeda. MI5 and 6 were probably quite attentive, as they were keen on these groups ability to provide foreign sources, and their issue with Iran, Libya, Syria and Iraq (all hated by the Islamic Jyhad - so much so that Libya even offered to set up Al-Quead's leader ship for the CIA and MI6).
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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EagleEyedAlbert ...too far north of the water. 09 Aug 14 10.27am | |
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Part 1 of 5 of a VICE report into the IS.
-Can often be found on HOL Radio chatting Palace-related nonsense: Catch it here, Sunday Nights 8pm: [Link] HOL Radio Twitter: [Link] Me on the Twitter: [Link]
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legaleagle 09 Aug 14 12.19pm | |
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How the chickens come home to roost.1998 interview with Zbigniew Brzezinski, President Carter's National Security Adviser.
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elgrande bedford 09 Aug 14 1.32pm | |
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Quote EagleEyedAlbert at 09 Aug 2014 10.27am
Part 1 of 5 of a VICE report into the IS.
always a Norwood boy, where ever I live. |
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