Gaza Strip 'invades' Israel.

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Gaza Strip 'invades' Israel.

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 12 Jan 24 11.29am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Isn't that a bit like telling Hitler to stop after he'd killed ten million Russians or three million Jews? They went for it....Stopping isn't going to happen is it. Going into Gaza like they did was a crossing of the Rubicon moment...the die was cast. I don't see the logic in them stopping. It's a binary for them, succeed or fail. What do Israel fear? They fear two things....The US turning off the money and weapons tap (not going to happen) and they fear invasion....That's unlikely from anyone except Hezbollah in Lebanon (who will probably be high on the agenda next and both are juicing up for it). Everybody who hates or dislikes Israel already does....I'm not seeing what they are being offered to change tack.....humanitarian or empathy arguments aren't going to work on them.....Another darkly comic irony. You have Blinken.......seemingly constantly being sent around the middle east having 'ain't it awful' conversations and trying to get and reduce Arab reactions to what Israel is doing and trying to restrain Israel to some extent....which is just a PR game.....The Arab states aren't going to help any of this for several reasons. It is a mass human tragedy where the politicians are more keystone cops than serious players. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Jan 2024 11.21am) No, it's not remotely like that - it's a direct response to a post making the exact suggestion that I have countered - the rest of your interpretation is completely your own.
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 12 Jan 24 11.29am

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Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Isn't that a bit like telling Hitler to stop after he'd killed ten million Russians or three million Jews?

They went for it....Stopping isn't going to happen is it. Going into Gaza like they did was a crossing of the Rubicon moment...the die was cast. I don't see the logic in them stopping. It's a binary for them, succeed or fail.

What do Israel fear? They fear two things....The US turning off the money and weapons tap (not going to happen) and they fear invasion....That's unlikely from anyone except Hezbollah in Lebanon (who will probably be high on the agenda next and both are juicing up for it).

Everybody who hates or dislikes Israel already does....I'm not seeing what they are being offered to change tack.....humanitarian or empathy arguments aren't going to work on them.....Another darkly comic irony.

You have Blinken.......seemingly constantly being sent around the middle east having 'ain't it awful' conversations and trying to get and reduce Arab reactions to what Israel is doing and trying to restrain Israel to some extent....which is just a PR game.....The Arab states aren't going to help any of this for several reasons.

It is a mass human tragedy where the politicians are more keystone cops than serious players.

Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Jan 2024 11.21am)

No, it's not remotely like that - it's a direct response to a post making the exact suggestion that I have countered - the rest of your interpretation is completely your own.

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Stirlingsays 12 Jan 24 12.05pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow No, it's not remotely like that - it's a direct response to a post making the exact suggestion that I have countered - the rest of your interpretation is completely your own. Well, if they stop now and let Gaza build back up they will just get attacked at some future point......it's a cycle. If it isn't like that then tell me. What is in it for the Israeli government to stop? You just seem to be responding with a negative but with no actual meat to justify it. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Jan 2024 12.09pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

12 Jan 24 12.05pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

No, it's not remotely like that - it's a direct response to a post making the exact suggestion that I have countered - the rest of your interpretation is completely your own.

Well, if they stop now and let Gaza build back up they will just get attacked at some future point......it's a cycle.

If it isn't like that then tell me.

What is in it for the Israeli government to stop?

You just seem to be responding with a negative but with no actual meat to justify it.

Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Jan 2024 12.09pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 12 Jan 24 12.52pm
Another battle rages,....in court. [Link] Only this time, Israel has viable opposition. "Israel has said South Africa has distorted the truth in its case to the International Court of Justice, where it is accusing Israel of genocide. South Africa had presented "a sweeping counter-factual description" of the Israel-Palestinian conflict, Israeli lawyer Tal Becker told the ICJ. South Africa says Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinians in its war in Gaza. It is also asking the court to order Israel to halt its military activity." (BBC website) I disengage, I turn the page.
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Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 12 Jan 24 12.52pm

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Another battle rages,....in court.
[Link]

Only this time, Israel has viable opposition.

"Israel has said South Africa has distorted the truth in its case to the International Court of Justice, where it is accusing Israel of genocide.

South Africa had presented "a sweeping counter-factual description" of the Israel-Palestinian conflict, Israeli lawyer Tal Becker told the ICJ.

South Africa says Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinians in its war in Gaza.

It is also asking the court to order Israel to halt its military activity." (BBC website)

I disengage, I turn the page.

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Hrolf The Ganger 12 Jan 24 1.02pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays The only loyalty I have is to the pro Anglos/Europeans in the US....and that's because they don't hate us because we are related. I haven't forgotten that the US worked against the British empire (something Powell noted and distrusted them for) and those plastic paddies who funded the IRA in areas like New York. I'm fed up with being the US's automatic minion myself. Their past governments worked against our empire when we had one and personally I don't see their vision for Europe as actually good for Europe. I no longer view their interest is purely positive.....in fact now that we are in cold war I view it as positively disruptive and economically stupid. Yes, it seems that tribalism is still part of global politics. The US suits itself, but it is in our interests to be aligned to the country with the biggest guns. Let's be honest, our armed forces couldn't do anything major without their assistance. We usually tag along just for old times sake. I am starting to think that Britain and Europe needs a much bigger military capability with the way things are going. A nuclear war might be off the menu, but that in itself could encourage some to damage our interests overseas, just like is happening now.
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Hrolf The Ganger

12 Jan 24 1.02pm

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Originally posted by Stirlingsays

The only loyalty I have is to the pro Anglos/Europeans in the US....and that's because they don't hate us because we are related. I haven't forgotten that the US worked against the British empire (something Powell noted and distrusted them for) and those plastic paddies who funded the IRA in areas like New York.

I'm fed up with being the US's automatic minion myself. Their past governments worked against our empire when we had one and personally I don't see their vision for Europe as actually good for Europe. I no longer view their interest is purely positive.....in fact now that we are in cold war I view it as positively disruptive and economically stupid.

Yes, it seems that tribalism is still part of global politics.

The US suits itself, but it is in our interests to be aligned to the country with the biggest guns. Let's be honest, our armed forces couldn't do anything major without their assistance. We usually tag along just for old times sake.

I am starting to think that Britain and Europe needs a much bigger military capability with the way things are going.
A nuclear war might be off the menu, but that in itself could encourage some to damage our interests overseas, just like is happening now.

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 12 Jan 24 1.03pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Well, if they stop now and let Gaza build back up they will just get attacked at some future point......it's a cycle. If it isn't like that then tell me. What is in it for the Israeli government to stop? You just seem to be responding with a negative but with no actual meat to justify it. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Jan 2024 12.09pm) A cycle that does not pose a huge threat to them - that's the point I'm making. Israel have likely killed more Palestinians this week than Hamas have killed Israelis in 15 years. There was one extreme exception to this on October 7th, but this is a 50+ year conflict and Israel have been relatively unharmed for the vast majority of that, certainly in recent times. The same is not true of Gaza. Let's please stop the pretence that Israel are at risk of being massacred at any moment if they stop bombing the s*** out of civilians - it's just a complete nonsense of an argument with decades of evidence to the contrary. The incentive for Israel to stop should come from the international community, if not wanting to commit genocide isn't enough of an incentive for them - Israel should be disgraced, expelled from the UN, should be excluded from sporting and cultural events, should be excluded from any academic corporation etc. in much the same way Russia has been. That's how you create the incentive to stop - whether they take it or not is up to them. I'm not sure how much more meat I can add on this thread - I think I've been very forthright with my views over many months.
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 12 Jan 24 1.03pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Well, if they stop now and let Gaza build back up they will just get attacked at some future point......it's a cycle.

If it isn't like that then tell me.

What is in it for the Israeli government to stop?

You just seem to be responding with a negative but with no actual meat to justify it.

Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Jan 2024 12.09pm)

A cycle that does not pose a huge threat to them - that's the point I'm making. Israel have likely killed more Palestinians this week than Hamas have killed Israelis in 15 years. There was one extreme exception to this on October 7th, but this is a 50+ year conflict and Israel have been relatively unharmed for the vast majority of that, certainly in recent times. The same is not true of Gaza.

Let's please stop the pretence that Israel are at risk of being massacred at any moment if they stop bombing the s*** out of civilians - it's just a complete nonsense of an argument with decades of evidence to the contrary.

The incentive for Israel to stop should come from the international community, if not wanting to commit genocide isn't enough of an incentive for them - Israel should be disgraced, expelled from the UN, should be excluded from sporting and cultural events, should be excluded from any academic corporation etc. in much the same way Russia has been. That's how you create the incentive to stop - whether they take it or not is up to them.

I'm not sure how much more meat I can add on this thread - I think I've been very forthright with my views over many months.

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Hrolf The Ganger 12 Jan 24 1.15pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow That's true - in the decades this conflict has been going on, how many times have Hamas managed to conduct an attack of that scale? So if for many decades Israel had maintained a reality where they regularly kill Palestinians, occupy their land and prevent their movement, with very little in terms of meaningful retaliation, why is the idea that they could return to this reality farfetched? I don't support the state of Israel, or its behaviour towards Palestine. However, I do wonder why you so obviously side with Palestine. It seems to be a leftist disease. I am totally in accord with you over the suffering and death of innocents, but I suspect that you would be cheering the rockets as they landed in Tel Aviv. The bottom line is that I don't want to see people of any kind being bombed unless they are bombing me and mine. I expect that is how most of Israel feels too. I don't think there is a going back now. The die has been cast and we must hope that a major escalation can be avoided.
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Hrolf The Ganger

12 Jan 24 1.15pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

That's true - in the decades this conflict has been going on, how many times have Hamas managed to conduct an attack of that scale?

So if for many decades Israel had maintained a reality where they regularly kill Palestinians, occupy their land and prevent their movement, with very little in terms of meaningful retaliation, why is the idea that they could return to this reality farfetched?

I don't support the state of Israel, or its behaviour towards Palestine. However, I do wonder why you so obviously side with Palestine. It seems to be a leftist disease.

I am totally in accord with you over the suffering and death of innocents, but I suspect that you would be cheering the rockets as they landed in Tel Aviv.

The bottom line is that I don't want to see people of any kind being bombed unless they are bombing me and mine.
I expect that is how most of Israel feels too.

I don't think there is a going back now. The die has been cast and we must hope that a major escalation can be avoided.

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 12 Jan 24 1.25pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger I don't support the state of Israel, or its behaviour towards Palestine. However, I do wonder why you so obviously side with Palestine. It seems to be a leftist disease. I am totally in accord with you over the suffering and death of innocents, but I suspect that you would be cheering the rockets as they landed in Tel Aviv. The bottom line is that I don't want to see people of any kind being bombed unless they are bombing me and mine. I expect that is how most of Israel feels too. I don't think there is a going back now. The die has been cast and we must hope that a major escalation can be avoided. You wonder why I side with Palestine? Is that difficult to work out? I'd struggle to see how anyone could properly educate themselves on this conflict (which did begin before October 7th btw) and come to any other conclusion. I don't want to see civilians killed anywhere, and it's a pretty despicable suggestion that I would cheer the bombing of anyone.
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 12 Jan 24 1.25pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I don't support the state of Israel, or its behaviour towards Palestine. However, I do wonder why you so obviously side with Palestine. It seems to be a leftist disease.

I am totally in accord with you over the suffering and death of innocents, but I suspect that you would be cheering the rockets as they landed in Tel Aviv.

The bottom line is that I don't want to see people of any kind being bombed unless they are bombing me and mine.
I expect that is how most of Israel feels too.

I don't think there is a going back now. The die has been cast and we must hope that a major escalation can be avoided.

You wonder why I side with Palestine? Is that difficult to work out? I'd struggle to see how anyone could properly educate themselves on this conflict (which did begin before October 7th btw) and come to any other conclusion.

I don't want to see civilians killed anywhere, and it's a pretty despicable suggestion that I would cheer the bombing of anyone.

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Hrolf The Ganger 12 Jan 24 1.30pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow You wonder why I side with Palestine? Is that difficult to work out? I'd struggle to see how anyone could properly educate themselves on this conflict (which did begin before October 7th btw) and come to any other conclusion. I don't want to see civilians killed anywhere, and it's a pretty despicable suggestion that I would cheer the bombing of anyone. And yet you side with group who just tortured and murdered women and children.
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Hrolf The Ganger

12 Jan 24 1.30pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

I don't want to see civilians killed anywhere, and it's a pretty despicable suggestion that I would cheer the bombing of anyone.

And yet you side with group who just tortured and murdered women and children.

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 12 Jan 24 1.33pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger And yet you side with group who just tortured and murdered women and children. I don’t know if it’s a lack of intelligence or just dishonesty, but you’re clearly drowning. Enjoy the weekend.
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 12 Jan 24 1.33pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

And yet you side with group who just tortured and murdered women and children.

I don’t know if it’s a lack of intelligence or just dishonesty, but you’re clearly drowning.

Enjoy the weekend.

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Hrolf The Ganger 12 Jan 24 1.39pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow I don’t know if it’s a lack of intelligence or just dishonesty, but you’re clearly drowning. Enjoy the weekend. I guess you couldn't go anywhere other than insult after admitting that you basically sympathise with Hamas. I just wonder how many tears you shed for all those poor Israelis who met their death at the end of a Hamas knife. Just the usual brief tokenisms as I recall. Dishonest? Hmmm.
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Hrolf The Ganger

12 Jan 24 1.39pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

I don’t know if it’s a lack of intelligence or just dishonesty, but you’re clearly drowning.

Enjoy the weekend.

I guess you couldn't go anywhere other than insult after admitting that you basically sympathise with Hamas.

I just wonder how many tears you shed for all those poor Israelis who met their death at the end of a Hamas knife.

Just the usual brief tokenisms as I recall.

Dishonest? Hmmm.

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 12 Jan 24 1.46pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger I guess you couldn't go anywhere other than insult after admitting that you basically sympathise with Hamas. I just wonder how many tears you shed for all those poor Israelis who met their death at the end of a Hamas knife. Just the usual brief tokenisms as I recall. Dishonest? Hmmm. Yes dishonest, and intellectually lacking. You asked me if I support Palestine, and now you change it to Hamas. An honest mistake I’m sure, only an idiot could get the two confused.
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 12 Jan 24 1.46pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I guess you couldn't go anywhere other than insult after admitting that you basically sympathise with Hamas.

I just wonder how many tears you shed for all those poor Israelis who met their death at the end of a Hamas knife.

Just the usual brief tokenisms as I recall.

Dishonest? Hmmm.

Yes dishonest, and intellectually lacking.

You asked me if I support Palestine, and now you change it to Hamas. An honest mistake I’m sure, only an idiot could get the two confused.

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Hrolf The Ganger 12 Jan 24 1.51pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow Yes dishonest, and intellectually lacking. You asked me if I support Palestine, and now you change it to Hamas. An honest mistake I’m sure, only an idiot could get the two confused. I'm not stupid enough to think that there can ever be peace between Israel and Palestine all the time the likes of Hamas exist. Only a real idiot would think that. You need to wake up to reality.
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Hrolf The Ganger

12 Jan 24 1.51pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Yes dishonest, and intellectually lacking.

You asked me if I support Palestine, and now you change it to Hamas. An honest mistake I’m sure, only an idiot could get the two confused.

I'm not stupid enough to think that there can ever be peace between Israel and Palestine all the time the likes of Hamas exist.

Only a real idiot would think that.

You need to wake up to reality.

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