Margaret Thatcher

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Margaret Thatcher

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Penge Eagle Beckenham 18 Apr 13 10.16am
At what point in time will the mining communities stop complaining about the industry being killed off? It's been 30 years now. Will their inability to ever get a job be blamed on Thatcher for infinity?
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Penge Eagle

Beckenham 18 Apr 13 10.16am

At what point in time will the mining communities stop complaining about the industry being killed off? It's been 30 years now. Will their inability to ever get a job be blamed on Thatcher for infinity?

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 18 Apr 13 10.47am
Quote Penge Eagle at 18 Apr 2013 10.16am At what point in time will the mining communities stop complaining about the industry being killed off? It's been 30 years now. Will their inability to ever get a job be blamed on Thatcher for infinity? More mines were closed in the 60s when Harold Wilson was PM than in the 80s yet you don't hear any criticism of him.
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 18 Apr 13 10.47am

Quote Penge Eagle at 18 Apr 2013 10.16am

More mines were closed in the 60s when Harold Wilson was PM than in the 80s yet you don't hear any criticism of him.

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Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 18 Apr 13 10.59am
Lord Gusset of Chislehurst's MP seemed to approve... [Link] Pro USA & Israel
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Jimenez

SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 18 Apr 13 10.59am

Lord Gusset of Chislehurst's MP seemed to approve...

[Link]

Pro USA & Israel

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Kermit8 Hevon 18 Apr 13 10.59am
Quote Willo at 18 Apr 2013 10.47am Quote Penge Eagle at 18 Apr 2013 10.16am At what point in time will the mining communities stop complaining about the industry being killed off? It's been 30 years now. Will their inability to ever get a job be blamed on Thatcher for infinity? More mines were closed in the 60s when Harold Wilson was PM than in the 80s yet you don't hear any criticism of him. Because he didn't let the miners and their families rot in a jobless future. In the 1980's there was already high employment in their areas before their respective' mines closed down. in the 60's They had other opportunities to find work in other industries and was relatively easy to do so.. Thatcher left them with no avenue of escape. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 18 Apr 13 10.59am

Quote Willo at 18 Apr 2013 10.47am

Quote Penge Eagle at 18 Apr 2013 10.16am

More mines were closed in the 60s when Harold Wilson was PM than in the 80s yet you don't hear any criticism of him.

Because he didn't let the miners and their families rot in a jobless future. In the 1980's there was already high employment in their areas before their respective' mines closed down.

in the 60's They had other opportunities to find work in other industries and was relatively easy to do so.. Thatcher left them with no avenue of escape.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 18 Apr 13 11.14am
Quote Kermit8 at 18 Apr 2013 10.59am Because he didn't let the miners and their families rot in a jobless future. In the 1980's there was already high employment in their areas before their respective' mines closed down. in the 60's They had other opportunities to find work in other industries and was relatively easy to do so.. Thatcher left them with no avenue of escape. When Margaret Thatcher came to power Britain was in a total and utter mess with the 'State' a giant welfare machine. The truth is that a radical shake-up of British industry which had limped along on Government subsidies for far too long was badly overdue.Even today when we are told we no longer make things, we are still in he Top 10 of the world's manufacturing exporters.Without Thatcher's reforms which massively boosted British productivity and banished the curse of industrial unrest this would not have been possible. Mrs Thatcher had to make some tough decisions and unfortunately her predecessors had put off the difficult decisions for far too long which meant that the pain would eventually be much greater. Edited by Willo (18 Apr 2013 11.20am)
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 18 Apr 13 11.14am

Quote Kermit8 at 18 Apr 2013 10.59am

Because he didn't let the miners and their families rot in a jobless future. In the 1980's there was already high employment in their areas before their respective' mines closed down.

in the 60's They had other opportunities to find work in other industries and was relatively easy to do so.. Thatcher left them with no avenue of escape.

When Margaret Thatcher came to power Britain was in a total and utter mess with the 'State' a giant welfare machine.

The truth is that a radical shake-up of British industry which had limped along on Government subsidies for far too long was badly overdue.Even today when we are told we no longer make things, we are still in he Top 10 of the world's manufacturing exporters.Without Thatcher's reforms which massively boosted British productivity and banished the curse of industrial unrest this would not have been possible.

Mrs Thatcher had to make some tough decisions and unfortunately her predecessors had put off the difficult decisions for far too long which meant that the pain would eventually be much greater.

Edited by Willo (18 Apr 2013 11.20am)

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jamiemartin721 Reading 18 Apr 13 11.27am
Quote Penge Eagle at 18 Apr 2013 10.16am At what point in time will the mining communities stop complaining about the industry being killed off? It's been 30 years now. Will their inability to ever get a job be blamed on Thatcher for infinity? Maybe when decent jobs are available in those areas. The problem isn't just that mining was closed down under thatcher alone, its that the closures were whole sale and created areas of massive unemployment at a time when UK industry was dying off - Meaning that large parts of the UK had massively reduced employment opportunties. The impact of the decline of the Steel Industry and mining was evident when I was at uni in 1996, 25% of Sheffield was unemployed, any kind of real career job was almost impossble to come by. And on the estates further out of the city which had been built around industry the unemployment figure was higher. There simply was no jobs that were ecconomically viable for people, they were better off on the dole. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 18 Apr 13 11.27am

Quote Penge Eagle at 18 Apr 2013 10.16am

Maybe when decent jobs are available in those areas. The problem isn't just that mining was closed down under thatcher alone, its that the closures were whole sale and created areas of massive unemployment at a time when UK industry was dying off - Meaning that large parts of the UK had massively reduced employment opportunties.

The impact of the decline of the Steel Industry and mining was evident when I was at uni in 1996, 25% of Sheffield was unemployed, any kind of real career job was almost impossble to come by. And on the estates further out of the city which had been built around industry the unemployment figure was higher.

There simply was no jobs that were ecconomically viable for people, they were better off on the dole.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Kermit8 Hevon 18 Apr 13 11.30am
Quote Willo at 18 Apr 2013 11.14am Quote Kermit8 at 18 Apr 2013 10.59am Because he didn't let the miners and their families rot in a jobless future. In the 1980's there was already high employment in their areas before their respective' mines closed down. in the 60's They had other opportunities to find work in other industries and was relatively easy to do so.. Thatcher left them with no avenue of escape. When Margaret Thatcher came to power Britain was in a total and utter mess with the 'State' a giant welfare machine. The truth is that a radical shake-up of British industry which had limped along on Government subsidies for far too long was badly overdue.Even today when we are told we no longer make things, we are still in he Top 10 of the world's manufacturing exporters.Without Thatcher's reforms which massively boosted British productivity and banished the curse of industrial unrest this would not have been possible. Mrs Thatcher had to make some tough decisions and unfortunately her predecessors had put off the difficult decisions for far too long which meant that the pain would eventually be much greater. Edited by Willo (18 Apr 2013 11.20am) So basically you are saying that the hardship for millions of Britons and their families and leaving their communities to rot were necessary casualties of an economic war. Collateral damage. Must have made them a bit sick when hearing about how the already wealthy were getting wealthier due to Thatcher's other economic policies whilst they were fumbling round the back of the sofa trying to find some loose change to buy some food, don't you think? Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 18 Apr 13 11.30am

Quote Willo at 18 Apr 2013 11.14am

Quote Kermit8 at 18 Apr 2013 10.59am

Because he didn't let the miners and their families rot in a jobless future. In the 1980's there was already high employment in their areas before their respective' mines closed down.

in the 60's They had other opportunities to find work in other industries and was relatively easy to do so.. Thatcher left them with no avenue of escape.

When Margaret Thatcher came to power Britain was in a total and utter mess with the 'State' a giant welfare machine.

Mrs Thatcher had to make some tough decisions and unfortunately her predecessors had put off the difficult decisions for far too long which meant that the pain would eventually be much greater.

Edited by Willo (18 Apr 2013 11.20am)

So basically you are saying that the hardship for millions of Britons and their families and leaving their communities to rot were necessary casualties of an economic war. Collateral damage.

Must have made them a bit sick when hearing about how the already wealthy were getting wealthier due to Thatcher's other economic policies whilst they were fumbling round the back of the sofa trying to find some loose change to buy some food, don't you think?

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 18 Apr 13 11.35am
Quote Kermit8 at 18 Apr 2013 10.59am Quote Willo at 18 Apr 2013 10.47am Quote Penge Eagle at 18 Apr 2013 10.16am At what point in time will the mining communities stop complaining about the industry being killed off? It's been 30 years now. Will their inability to ever get a job be blamed on Thatcher for infinity? More mines were closed in the 60s when Harold Wilson was PM than in the 80s yet you don't hear any criticism of him. Because he didn't let the miners and their families rot in a jobless future. In the 1980's there was already high employment in their areas before their respective' mines closed down. in the 60's They had other opportunities to find work in other industries and was relatively easy to do so.. Thatcher left them with no avenue of escape. This. The big difference is that in the 1960s a man could work a low skilled labour job and earn a decent living and with a little overtime do well for himself and his family. That became impossible during the 1980s. Low Skilled Labour wages never recovered from the decline of industry, leaving people chasing dead end jobs with no overtime payment and low wages. This progressed over the 90s into what are essentially McJobs, minimum or close to minimum wage jobs that are facilitated by casual labour (migrants, students, part time workers - ie where people are earning top up wages, rather than a living). People strangely find it very difficult to exist on 20k a year, whilst paying 800-1000 a month on rent/mortgages alone, let alone having to cover bills, food, pensions etc. Go back to before the 1980s, and a family of four, could manage a decent standard of living on a single manual labour wage. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 18 Apr 13 11.35am

Quote Kermit8 at 18 Apr 2013 10.59am

Quote Willo at 18 Apr 2013 10.47am

Quote Penge Eagle at 18 Apr 2013 10.16am

More mines were closed in the 60s when Harold Wilson was PM than in the 80s yet you don't hear any criticism of him.

Because he didn't let the miners and their families rot in a jobless future. In the 1980's there was already high employment in their areas before their respective' mines closed down.

in the 60's They had other opportunities to find work in other industries and was relatively easy to do so.. Thatcher left them with no avenue of escape.

This.

The big difference is that in the 1960s a man could work a low skilled labour job and earn a decent living and with a little overtime do well for himself and his family.

That became impossible during the 1980s. Low Skilled Labour wages never recovered from the decline of industry, leaving people chasing dead end jobs with no overtime payment and low wages.

This progressed over the 90s into what are essentially McJobs, minimum or close to minimum wage jobs that are facilitated by casual labour (migrants, students, part time workers - ie where people are earning top up wages, rather than a living).

People strangely find it very difficult to exist on 20k a year, whilst paying 800-1000 a month on rent/mortgages alone, let alone having to cover bills, food, pensions etc.

Go back to before the 1980s, and a family of four, could manage a decent standard of living on a single manual labour wage.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 18 Apr 13 11.42am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 18 Apr 2013 11.27am Of course that for many people the 80s were very difficult years but in truth Britain was always facing an immensely painful transition with unemployment always likely to rise as the inevitable penalty after years of decline. In the final analysis the stark reality of globalisation meant that major industries were doomed before Mrs Thatcher came to office.
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 18 Apr 13 11.42am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 18 Apr 2013 11.27am

Of course that for many people the 80s were very difficult years but in truth Britain was always facing an immensely painful transition with unemployment always likely to rise as the inevitable penalty after years of decline.

In the final analysis the stark reality of globalisation meant that major industries were doomed before Mrs Thatcher came to office.

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The Sash Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 18 Apr 13 12.57pm
I think this thread also confirms what a tedious old queen Morrisey has now turned into As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014
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The Sash

Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 18 Apr 13 12.57pm

I think this thread also confirms what a tedious old queen Morrisey has now turned into

As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014

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jamiemartin721 Reading 18 Apr 13 1.09pm
Quote Willo at 18 Apr 2013 11.42am Quote jamiemartin721 at 18 Apr 2013 11.27am Of course that for many people the 80s were very difficult years but in truth Britain was always facing an immensely painful transition with unemployment always likely to rise as the inevitable penalty after years of decline. In the final analysis the stark reality of globalisation meant that major industries were doomed before Mrs Thatcher came to office. It depends on how you view the role of government, as to whether its to the people as a whole, or just to those who'll vote for you. We swapped failing industries for massive welfare budgets, deciding it more moral to render people into poverty and benefits, than to subsides them as members of society. Thatchers route included nothing for those who would lose out, whilst profits boomed and taxes were cut. Those privatised companys would also often go onto be record profit makers for decades (BT for example. The tories had crippled the unions, they were in a great position to rationalise and reform state assests like BT. Instead they sold off cheap one of the most profitable British Companys of the next 20 years - Its surely on a par with Brown selling off the gold reserve). The problem with the Thatcherite response is that it simply relied far to much on the ideology of the free market and deregulation, without a view to the idea that a government is responsible for more than just the wealth generation of those who will vote for it. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 18 Apr 13 1.09pm

Quote Willo at 18 Apr 2013 11.42am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 18 Apr 2013 11.27am

In the final analysis the stark reality of globalisation meant that major industries were doomed before Mrs Thatcher came to office.

It depends on how you view the role of government, as to whether its to the people as a whole, or just to those who'll vote for you.

We swapped failing industries for massive welfare budgets, deciding it more moral to render people into poverty and benefits, than to subsides them as members of society. Thatchers route included nothing for those who would lose out, whilst profits boomed and taxes were cut.

Those privatised companys would also often go onto be record profit makers for decades (BT for example. The tories had crippled the unions, they were in a great position to rationalise and reform state assests like BT. Instead they sold off cheap one of the most profitable British Companys of the next 20 years - Its surely on a par with Brown selling off the gold reserve).

The problem with the Thatcherite response is that it simply relied far to much on the ideology of the free market and deregulation, without a view to the idea that a government is responsible for more than just the wealth generation of those who will vote for it.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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