The only loyalty I have is to the pro Anglos/Europeans in the US....and that's because they don't hate us because we are related. I haven't forgotten that the US worked against the British empire (something Powell noted and distrusted them for) and those plastic paddies who funded the IRA in areas like New York.

I'm fed up with being the US's automatic minion myself. Their past governments worked against our empire when we had one and personally I don't see their vision for Europe as actually good for Europe. I no longer view their interest is purely positive.....in fact now that we are in cold war I view it as positively disruptive and economically stupid.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

If not Hamas then some new group will emerge somewhere. You don’t treat people like this and make their children lose their parents and siblings without creating an overwhelming desire for revenge.

Israel is not solving their problem. They are prolonging it.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

From 2000-2014, there were 8,166 recorded conflict-related deaths, of which 7,065 are Palestinian and 1,101 Israeli. That means 87 percent of deaths have been Palestinian and only 13 percent Israeli. Put another way, for every 15 people killed in the conflict, 13 are Palestinian and two are Israeli.

The idea that Hamas has the capability to wipe out 1000s of Israeli's is demonstrably false, as is the idea there is anything close to 'an eye for an eye' in this conflict.

Attachment: IP_conflict_deaths_total.png (267.68Kb)

These two are in a war....The very point of a war is that you kill more of them than they kill of you.

I think the reason most people get shocked is that they don't realise that it's a war and believe the stuff coming out from politicians.

Most of whom would regard honesty as coming from fairy tales.

What we are seeing is barbarism......and western hypocrisy.....because if the side they favour is doing it then they are quieter.

Realpolitik.

Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Jan 2024 10.06am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

The point is to highlight that if Israel were to end their current action, they're not suddenly sitting ducks who might get massacred, as is being suggested.

Edited by EverybodyDannsNow (12 Jan 2024 10.18am)

Isn't that a bit like telling Hitler to stop after he'd killed ten million Russians or three million Jews?

They went for it....Stopping isn't going to happen is it. Going into Gaza like they did was a crossing of the Rubicon moment...the die was cast. I don't see the logic in them stopping. It's a binary for them, succeed or fail.

What do Israel fear? They fear two things....The US turning off the money and weapons tap (not going to happen) and they fear invasion....That's unlikely from anyone except Hezbollah in Lebanon (who will probably be high on the agenda next and both are juicing up for it).

Everybody who hates or dislikes Israel already does....I'm not seeing what they are being offered to change tack.....humanitarian or empathy arguments aren't going to work on them.....Another darkly comic irony.

You have Blinken.......seemingly constantly being sent around the middle east having 'ain't it awful' conversations and trying to get and reduce Arab reactions to what Israel is doing and trying to restrain Israel to some extent....which is just a PR game.....The Arab states aren't going to help any of this for several reasons.

It is a mass human tragedy where the politicians are more keystone cops than serious players.

Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Jan 2024 11.21am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)