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Matov 11 Dec 18 5.37pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Actually, probably. It was Cameron. It is clear he didn't think the vote would be to leave, I doubt very much we would have had a vote if he had thought differently. So we should just ignore that 'promise' and write it off as one of those things? Do you honestly believe that another referendum, with Remain as an option, could ever be taken seriously by people like me who voted Leave? And given that you have clearly not respected my vote, why should I respect yours? "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

11 Dec 18 5.37pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Actually, probably. It was Cameron. It is clear he didn't think the vote would be to leave, I doubt very much we would have had a vote if he had thought differently.

So we should just ignore that 'promise' and write it off as one of those things?

Do you honestly believe that another referendum, with Remain as an option, could ever be taken seriously by people like me who voted Leave? And given that you have clearly not respected my vote, why should I respect yours?

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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Mapletree Croydon 11 Dec 18 5.47pm
Originally posted by Matov So we should just ignore that 'promise' and write it off as one of those things? Do you honestly believe that another referendum, with Remain as an option, could ever be taken seriously by people like me who voted Leave? And given that you have clearly not respected my vote, why should I respect yours? Turns out the promise was mis-sold, what we are receiving is not what people believed was promised. If we have another referendum and you don't turn out to vote, believe me I shall not hold it against you The problem with a referendum is it's one person one vote. It is not weighted according to the relative benefits and disbenefits affecting each voter.
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Mapletree

Croydon 11 Dec 18 5.47pm

Originally posted by Matov

So we should just ignore that 'promise' and write it off as one of those things?

Turns out the promise was mis-sold, what we are receiving is not what people believed was promised.

If we have another referendum and you don't turn out to vote, believe me I shall not hold it against you

The problem with a referendum is it's one person one vote. It is not weighted according to the relative benefits and disbenefits affecting each voter.

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Mapletree Croydon 11 Dec 18 5.49pm
Originally posted by elgrande Well I'm sorry you lost your job. But I don't agree with all this Paris and Frankfurt balls,I listened to the wireless the other day that the city of London is being swamped with people looking for business leases. We will still be the financial services leader. We shall lose ground. There will be no recovering from that. We may get back to where we were, we shall never get back to where we could have been. Those that have been jealously watching the City have the most fantastic opportunity.
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Mapletree

Croydon 11 Dec 18 5.49pm

Originally posted by elgrande

Well I'm sorry you lost your job.
But I don't agree with all this Paris and Frankfurt balls,I listened
to the wireless the other day that the city of London is being swamped with people looking for business leases.
We will still be the financial services leader.

We shall lose ground. There will be no recovering from that. We may get back to where we were, we shall never get back to where we could have been.

Those that have been jealously watching the City have the most fantastic opportunity.

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Stirlingsays 11 Dec 18 5.54pm
Originally posted by Mapletree We shall lose ground. There will be no recovering from that. We may get back to where we were, we shall never get back to where we could have been. Those that have been jealously watching the City have the most fantastic opportunity. Enviously, not jealously. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

11 Dec 18 5.54pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

We shall lose ground. There will be no recovering from that. We may get back to where we were, we shall never get back to where we could have been.

Those that have been jealously watching the City have the most fantastic opportunity.

Enviously, not jealously.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Badger11 Beckenham 11 Dec 18 5.58pm
As others have said a 2nd referendum won't resolve anything for two reasons. 1. There will be no consensus on what we are voting for, so before a vote has been cast one side will feel aggrieved. Are we voting on how we Brexit or is it a re-run of the 2016 vote? Or something else entirely? 2. I suspect the result will be close what if it is a repeat of 2016 and the leavers just win it. Will the Remainers shut up or call foul, I rather think the latter. I don't see a scenario where a 2nd referdum solves anything it just prolongs the agony. Now after we leave another referendum in say 5-10 years time if the people want it makes sense as it will be a binary choice. Do we re-join the EU. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 11 Dec 18 5.58pm

As others have said a 2nd referendum won't resolve anything for two reasons.

1. There will be no consensus on what we are voting for, so before a vote has been cast one side will feel aggrieved. Are we voting on how we Brexit or is it a re-run of the 2016 vote? Or something else entirely?

2. I suspect the result will be close what if it is a repeat of 2016 and the leavers just win it. Will the Remainers shut up or call foul, I rather think the latter.

I don't see a scenario where a 2nd referdum solves anything it just prolongs the agony.

Now after we leave another referendum in say 5-10 years time if the people want it makes sense as it will be a binary choice. Do we re-join the EU.

One more point

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steve1984 11 Dec 18 6.03pm
Originally posted by Cucking Funt How is anyone's understanding different to what it was at the time of the 2016 referendum? Knowledge is accumulated over time. That fact doesn't mean that everyone is wiser today than they were yesterday but nevertheless the principle still holds true (No I don't support a 2nd vote) Edited by steve1984 (11 Dec 2018 6.07pm)
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steve1984 11 Dec 18 6.03pm

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

How is anyone's understanding different to what it was at the time of the 2016 referendum?

Knowledge is accumulated over time. That fact doesn't mean that everyone is wiser today than they were yesterday but nevertheless the principle still holds true

(No I don't support a 2nd vote)

Edited by steve1984 (11 Dec 2018 6.07pm)

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Mapletree Croydon 11 Dec 18 6.03pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Enviously, not jealously. Huh? jealous adjective feeling resentment against someone because of that person's rivalry, success, or advantages (often followed by of): He was jealous of his rich brother. feeling resentment because of another's success, advantage, etc. (often followed by of): He was jealous of his brother's wealth.
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Mapletree

Croydon 11 Dec 18 6.03pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Enviously, not jealously.

Huh?

jealous

adjective

feeling resentment against someone because of that person's rivalry, success, or advantages (often followed by of):
He was jealous of his rich brother.

feeling resentment because of another's success, advantage, etc. (often followed by of):
He was jealous of his brother's wealth.

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Mapletree Croydon 11 Dec 18 6.04pm
Originally posted by steve1984 Knowledge is accumulated over time. That fact doesn't mean that everyone is wider today than they were yesterday but nevertheless the principle still holds true (No I don't support a 2nd vote) But most people are wider I certainly have become so over the years
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Mapletree

Croydon 11 Dec 18 6.04pm

Originally posted by steve1984

Knowledge is accumulated over time. That fact doesn't mean that everyone is wider today than they were yesterday but nevertheless the principle still holds true

(No I don't support a 2nd vote)

But most people are wider

I certainly have become so over the years

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Hrolf The Ganger 11 Dec 18 6.05pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Which part of because it would include the people most affected by the outcome did you struggle with? Also because the likely nature of our exit is fully articulated. May's deal or WTO terms. I do not believe that was at all clear at the vote two years ago. And by the way, the real effects have come home to roost for some people. I lost my job as a direct result. I was at a lecture in the City last week about European Union visas and the volume of movements being prepared - out of London mostly to Frankfurt and Paris - was absolutely stunning. I had not fully appreciated the scale. Edited by Mapletree (11 Dec 2018 5.14pm) The question was not do we want Brexit but with the proviso that we can change our minds if everything is not perfect. At what point did you figure out that Brexit would not be without negatives? I'm certain that most people who voted leave were well aware of that when they voted. The information available now is no more clear than it was for the first vote. The fact that we are now some way down the road has changed nothing with regard to what will happen after Brexit. It cannot be predicted in the medium or long term. Your logic is garbage.
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Hrolf The Ganger

11 Dec 18 6.05pm

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Originally posted by Mapletree

Which part of because it would include the people most affected by the outcome did you struggle with?

Also because the likely nature of our exit is fully articulated. May's deal or WTO terms. I do not believe that was at all clear at the vote two years ago.

And by the way, the real effects have come home to roost for some people. I lost my job as a direct result. I was at a lecture in the City last week about European Union visas and the volume of movements being prepared - out of London mostly to Frankfurt and Paris - was absolutely stunning. I had not fully appreciated the scale.

Edited by Mapletree (11 Dec 2018 5.14pm)

The question was not do we want Brexit but with the proviso that we can change our minds if everything is not perfect.

At what point did you figure out that Brexit would not be without negatives? I'm certain that most people who voted leave were well aware of that when they voted.

The information available now is no more clear than it was for the first vote. The fact that we are now some way down the road has changed nothing with regard to what will happen after Brexit. It cannot be predicted in the medium or long term.

Your logic is garbage.

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steve1984 11 Dec 18 6.06pm
Originally posted by W12 And doesn’t a second referendum make any future referendum simply worthless? Hopefully there won't be anymore but yes of course you're absolutely right.
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steve1984 11 Dec 18 6.06pm

Originally posted by W12

And doesn’t a second referendum make any future referendum simply worthless?

Hopefully there won't be anymore but yes of course you're absolutely right.

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steve1984 11 Dec 18 6.06pm
Originally posted by Mapletree But most people are wider I certainly have become so over the years you and me both
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steve1984 11 Dec 18 6.06pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

But most people are wider

I certainly have become so over the years

you and me both

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Matov 11 Dec 18 6.06pm
Originally posted by Mapletree The problem with a referendum is it's one person one vote. Do you know what democracy actually is? "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

11 Dec 18 6.06pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

The problem with a referendum is it's one person one vote.

Do you know what democracy actually is?

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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