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 Wisbech Eagle  Truro Cornwall 21 Feb 22 7.33pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Over 98 percent have antibodies.....You just haven't moved on. So what? As was pointed out pages ago the existence of antibodies does not equal herd immunity. It's the quality, and type, that matters. There is no point in moving to the wrong place.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 21 Feb 22 7.38pm |
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Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly
People are still going to get infected. In the short term, after these restrictions are lifted, there will inevitably be an upturn in infections, hospitalisations and deaths. Super-spreaders will go about their activities un-checked. In the longer-term , deaths will likely reduce because: I have personal concerns that lifting of restrictions will put vulnerable people at increased risk, when they go about daily activities, such as shopping. Your common sense will find stony ground here, and either be dismissed or ignored.
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| Eaglecoops CR3 21 Feb 22 7.39pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
BS. Being uneducated won't kill you. It's for both the child's benefit and that of wider society that it is compulsory. Vaccination is no different. Not caring for your child is seen as child abuse, and can result in removal. When the MMR vaccines can protect against life-threatening diseases they ought to be compulsory. The Covid vaccines are different in that the effects of infection in a child are generally mild, but not so in the older people they can infect. That's when the benefit to wider society becomes important. Just remember this. Jehovah's Witnesses used to be able to refuse blood transfusions for their children. No longer. A clinician is now lawfully able to over-rule the parent's wishes, although they will do their utmost to persuade and co=operate first. So we already have established a legal precedent for health, alongside the established one for education. This has nothing to do with "authoritarianism". It only has to do with ensuring the child's best interests are not abused by parental biases imposing restrictions on them. The child cannot speak for themselves, so sometimes the state must. Again I know I am ahead of the curve, but I don't expect it to be too long before it catches up. Massive difference. One case is for a life or death situation, what you are suggesting is not.
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| Stirlingsays 21 Feb 22 7.41pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
So what? As was pointed out pages ago the existence of antibodies does not equal herd immunity. It's the quality, and type, that matters. There is no point in moving to the wrong place. 'Herd immunity' is a term....it was never meant to mean no one ever dies. Frankly I regard the idea of a population with 98 percent coverage not having 'herd immunity' is basically saying 'herd immunity' doesn't exist......yes it does, you have just applied a different unobtainable standard to it. The evidence shows antibodies from natural immunity are slightly actually stronger than those from vaccination. There is no such thing as a 'standard' strength of antibody. That will hold true to the individual regardless of whether they have natural immunity or vaccination....it relates to the strength of the person's immune system, which can be affected by various factors. Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Feb 2022 7.43pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 21 Feb 22 7.47pm |
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Originally posted by Eden Eagle
In order to avoid any risk as you suggest WE, how about we ban smoking, drinking, travelling by car, cycling, in-fact any form of travel, eating the “wrong food”, pretty much every sport played or we can let people take personal responsibility and make their own decisions…. We have. Causing harm to yourself is nobody's business but you. Causing harm to others is everyone's business. Smoking in public places, where it can impact others, is banned. Driving under the influence of drink or drugs is illegal. Cars could not be banned without a complete lifestyle change, so we have made them as safe as possible. Cycling rarely hurts anyone but the cyclist. Eating badly only harms yourself. Playing sport is already a personal choice, with the safety of others mitigated by protective clothing.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 21 Feb 22 7.49pm |
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Originally posted by Eaglecoops
Massive difference. One case is for a life or death situation, what you are suggesting is not. I am talking about the precedent for health, not the detail.
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| Badger11 Beckenham 21 Feb 22 7.52pm |
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The restrictions were reasonable to protect people especially vulnerable until a vaccine could be found. Those who want the vaccine have had it leaving those who can't for medical reasons and those who wont. There is always risk but it is clear that COVID is now becoming part of life just like a common cold or flu can kill some people. It's time to get back to normality if the numbers go crazy then we will just have to look again.
One more point |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 21 Feb 22 7.55pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
'Herd immunity' is a term....it was never meant to mean no one ever dies. Frankly I regard the idea of a population with 98 percent coverage not having 'herd immunity' is basically saying 'herd immunity' doesn't exist......yes it does, you have just applied a different unobtainable standard to it. The evidence shows antibodies from natural immunity are slightly actually stronger than those from vaccination. There is no such thing as a 'standard' strength of antibody. That will hold true to the individual regardless of whether they have natural immunity or vaccination....it relates to the strength of the person's immune system, which can be affected by various factors. Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Feb 2022 7.43pm) No it's not. This was all covered in detail weeks ago but here are these discredited claims being trotted out again. I have to wonder if some have such a set mind they are incapable of absorbing real facts and then amending their position. It has been established, beyond any doubt, that the benefits bestowed by a series of vaccination far outweighs that acquired by natural immunity, which fades faster and doesn't protect nearly so well against either severe disease or "long" Covid.
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| Stirlingsays 21 Feb 22 7.56pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
We have. Causing harm to yourself is nobody's business but you. Causing harm to others is everyone's business. Smoking in public places, where it can impact others, is banned. Driving under the influence of drink or drugs is illegal. Cars could not be banned without a complete lifestyle change, so we have made them as safe as possible. Cycling rarely hurts anyone but the cyclist. Eating badly only harms yourself. Playing sport is already a personal choice, with the safety of others mitigated by protective clothing. Smoking harms the unborn child and smoking while pregnant isn't banned. Many trips by car are done for convenience rather than out of necessity. Death and injury will also be caused within that context. You insisting on covid passports is a dramatic lifestyle change to many people with possible add ons that could drastically change the relationship between citizen/subject and state.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 21 Feb 22 8.03pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
The restrictions were reasonable to protect people especially vulnerable until a vaccine could be found. Those who want the vaccine have had it leaving those who can't for medical reasons and those who wont. There is always risk but it is clear that COVID is now becoming part of life just like a common cold or flu can kill some people. It's time to get back to normality if the numbers go crazy then we will just have to look again. I don't think it is wise to yet start regarding like that. We are easing off the restrictions earlier this year than last, so let's hope we can get through to next Autumn unscathed. What though do you think we now need to do with vaccinations? Especially with those who refuse.
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| Stirlingsays 21 Feb 22 8.06pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
No it's not. This was all covered in detail weeks ago but here are these discredited claims being trotted out again. I have to wonder if some have such a set mind they are incapable of absorbing real facts and then amending their position. It has been established, beyond any doubt, that the benefits bestowed by a series of vaccination far outweighs that acquired by natural immunity, which fades faster and doesn't protect nearly so well against either severe disease or "long" Covid. You are stating claims, not facts. Again, there is no standardised 'fading' time limit for natural immunity and it will vary dependent on the individual. In reality, unless a person is locking themselves away, a person's system will be meeting and fighting the naturally evolving virus regularly which extends the natural immunity....We see this with flu, with on average a person contracting the virus two times a decade....however on average those system would have beaten off flu many times over. We know that vaccination fades quicker on average with I think 20 weeks being stated as maximum safe limit. The reality is that the state isn't going to give you three free jabs a year. People will end up with one jab before the winter months and in effect the mass of the population will be unvaccinated for half the year.....the same as it was for flu. You are living in an unrealistic bubble....unless you pay for it....it's likely you will be unvaccinated for half the year. Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Feb 2022 8.09pm)
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 21 Feb 22 8.12pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Smoking harms the unborn child and smoking while pregnant isn't banned. Many trips by car are done for convenience rather than out of necessity. Death and injury will also be caused within that context. You insisting on covid passports is a dramatic lifestyle change to many people with possible add ons that could drastically change the relationship between citizen/subject and state.
Fair point. It ought to be. The car is an established part of modern lifestyles. Mitigating its potential harm, whilst enjoying its benefits makes sense. Getting vaccinated only brings benefits. There is no harm to mitigate, only self-righteousness to placate. Vaccine passports bring benefits to the many, whilst disadvantaging a few. A few who can easily, quickly and painlessly join the many. Nothing the least dramatic, drastic or threatening involved. Other than in a few minds who are behaving unreasonably and unpatriotically.
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