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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 21 Feb 22 6.42pm
People are still going to get infected. People are still going to get very ill, and some will be hospitalised. There will be more Covid deaths. In the short term, after these restrictions are lifted, there will inevitably be an upturn in infections, hospitalisations and deaths. Super-spreaders will go about their activities un-checked. In the longer-term , deaths will likely reduce because: The really vulnerable are already dead The still alive and vulnerable will be living a more isolated existence * Continuation of vaccination programmes *A certain amount of immunity will prevail within the population as a whole. etc. I have personal concerns that lifting of restrictions will put vulnerable people at increased risk, when they go about daily activities, such as shopping. The NHS is still under strain, and I am concerned that further hospitalisations will further impact patients on other treatment programmes, such as cancer, or awaiting delayed scheduled operations. I disengage, I turn the page.
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Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 21 Feb 22 6.42pm

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People are still going to get infected.
People are still going to get very ill, and some will be hospitalised.
There will be more Covid deaths.

In the short term, after these restrictions are lifted, there will inevitably be an upturn in infections, hospitalisations and deaths. Super-spreaders will go about their activities un-checked.

In the longer-term , deaths will likely reduce because:
*The really vulnerable are already dead
*The still alive and vulnerable will be living a more isolated existence
* Continuation of vaccination programmes
*A certain amount of immunity will prevail within the population as a whole.
etc.

I have personal concerns that lifting of restrictions will put vulnerable people at increased risk, when they go about daily activities, such as shopping.
The NHS is still under strain, and I am concerned that further hospitalisations will further impact patients on other treatment programmes, such as cancer, or awaiting delayed scheduled operations.

I disengage, I turn the page.

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 21 Feb 22 6.45pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle No-one predicted anything of the sort. They warned about a worst case scenario and not to throw caution to the wind. As I said at the time it is always wise to be cautious and then release early, once the facts are known. The SA data wasn't trusted, because of the probability of underreporting. We needed data based on facts we established ourselves. Boris, already under pressure from discontented backbenchers, decided to politicise his decision-making and now seems to be doing it again. If the science says it's necessary for all children to be vaccinated, then vaccinated they should be. Whether that is for MMR or Covid. We don't allow parents not to educate their children. They either attend school or must be at home (although I would restrict that significantly). Why allow them to take risks with their children's health? Why allow them to think they know better than the experts? Parents don't own their children. They are responsible for them, and their care, and we, via the Government, have a duty to set standards. Being vaccinated is one. There is no ‘THE science’, unless you’re Kier, one of his clowns or a gobby female shadow cabinet hot air blower. As for the rest of that paragraph. The nerve of it. Edited by Rudi Hedman (21 Feb 2022 6.56pm) COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 21 Feb 22 6.45pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

No-one predicted anything of the sort. They warned about a worst case scenario and not to throw caution to the wind. As I said at the time it is always wise to be cautious and then release early, once the facts are known. The SA data wasn't trusted, because of the probability of underreporting. We needed data based on facts we established ourselves.

Boris, already under pressure from discontented backbenchers, decided to politicise his decision-making and now seems to be doing it again.

If the science says it's necessary for all children to be vaccinated, then vaccinated they should be. Whether that is for MMR or Covid. We don't allow parents not to educate their children. They either attend school or must be at home (although I would restrict that significantly). Why allow them to take risks with their children's health? Why allow them to think they know better than the experts? Parents don't own their children. They are responsible for them, and their care, and we, via the Government, have a duty to set standards. Being vaccinated is one.

There is no ‘THE science’, unless you’re Kier, one of his clowns or a gobby female shadow cabinet hot air blower. As for the rest of that paragraph. The nerve of it.

Edited by Rudi Hedman (21 Feb 2022 6.56pm)

COYP

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Stirlingsays 21 Feb 22 6.47pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle More? No. Some? Yes. As pointed out it already possess some. Kids must be educated. What is so different about ensuring their health is looked after? Is health not so important as education? I think when it comes down to body autonomy for a disease that isn't going to kill the individual.....the idea that the state should be allowed to forcibly oppose that child's parents is quite incredible....pure authoritarianism. Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Feb 2022 7.01pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

21 Feb 22 6.47pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

More? No.

Some? Yes.

As pointed out it already possess some. Kids must be educated. What is so different about ensuring their health is looked after?

Is health not so important as education?

I think when it comes down to body autonomy for a disease that isn't going to kill the individual.....the idea that the state should be allowed to forcibly oppose that child's parents is quite incredible....pure authoritarianism.

Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Feb 2022 7.01pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 21 Feb 22 6.48pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Apparently the state should have more say over what happens to your children than parents.....KGB or what. This is Maple's 'granite shoreline', Bluejay's 'good bloke'. I can barely contain the laughter. I wish he would go to different school pick ups to spread the word/his views. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 21 Feb 22 6.48pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Apparently the state should have more say over what happens to your children than parents.....KGB or what.

This is Maple's 'granite shoreline', Bluejay's 'good bloke'.

I can barely contain the laughter.

I wish he would go to different school pick ups to spread the word/his views.

COYP

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Eden Eagle Kent 21 Feb 22 6.48pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Some risks cannot be avoided. Some can. We deal with those we can, and do our utmost to mitigate the impacts of those we cannot. We just need to make responsible decisions, and deciding to avoid any risk that can be avoided, is a no-brainer. We can be vaccinated. We use cars with ever more effective safety devices, which mitigate harm. Political decisions on how to manage a country are a completely different subject and a sidetrack to no-where. In order to avoid any risk as you suggest WE, how about we ban smoking, drinking, travelling by car, cycling, in-fact any form of travel, eating the “wrong food”, pretty much every sport played or we can let people take personal responsibility and make their own decisions….
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Eden Eagle

Kent 21 Feb 22 6.48pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Some risks cannot be avoided. Some can.

We deal with those we can, and do our utmost to mitigate the impacts of those we cannot. We just need to make responsible decisions, and deciding to avoid any risk that can be avoided, is a no-brainer.

We can be vaccinated. We use cars with ever more effective safety devices, which mitigate harm.

Political decisions on how to manage a country are a completely different subject and a sidetrack to no-where.

In order to avoid any risk as you suggest WE, how about we ban smoking, drinking, travelling by car, cycling, in-fact any form of travel, eating the “wrong food”, pretty much every sport played or we can let people take personal responsibility and make their own decisions….

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 21 Feb 22 6.51pm
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle From the WHO… The percentage of people who need to be immune in order to achieve herd immunity varies with each disease. For example, herd immunity against measles requires about 95% of a population to be vaccinated. The remaining 5% will be protected by the fact that measles will not spread among those who are vaccinated. For polio, the threshold is about 80%. COVID vaccinations are already in that range. What restrictions should be imposed on unvaccinated people? Never let out of Croydon? Never allowed in Cornwall? It’s available to everyone after all. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 21 Feb 22 6.51pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

From the WHO…
The percentage of people who need to be immune in order to achieve herd immunity varies with each disease. For example, herd immunity against measles requires about 95% of a population to be vaccinated. The remaining 5% will be protected by the fact that measles will not spread among those who are vaccinated.
For polio, the threshold is about 80%.

COVID vaccinations are already in that range.

What restrictions should be imposed on unvaccinated people?

Never let out of Croydon? Never allowed in Cornwall? It’s available to everyone after all.

COYP

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 21 Feb 22 6.55pm
Seeing people complaining on tv about dropping the legal requirement to isolate should be shown their future tax rates and tax bills for not only them but their children and their great grandchildren. We’re going to hear them complain over the years because of this anyway so may as well watch their faces now too. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 21 Feb 22 6.55pm

Seeing people complaining on tv about dropping the legal requirement to isolate should be shown their future tax rates and tax bills for not only them but their children and their great grandchildren. We’re going to hear them complain over the years because of this anyway so may as well watch their faces now too.

COYP

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Stirlingsays 21 Feb 22 7.00pm
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman I wish he would go to different school pick ups to spread the word/his views. Maybe he could start his own religion. Cornyism. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

21 Feb 22 7.00pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

I wish he would go to different school pick ups to spread the word/his views.

Maybe he could start his own religion.

Cornyism.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 21 Feb 22 7.03pm
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle From the WHO… The percentage of people who need to be immune in order to achieve herd immunity varies with each disease. For example, herd immunity against measles requires about 95% of a population to be vaccinated. The remaining 5% will be protected by the fact that measles will not spread among those who are vaccinated. For polio, the threshold is about 80%. COVID vaccinations are already in that range. What restrictions should be imposed on unvaccinated people? As you state it varies, and we don't have it yet, and we don't know what level is needed. Until the world reaches a level we don't yet know we must assume it needs to be higher than it is. Covid immunity, either via vaccines or infection, wanes but vaccination provides stronger, longer lasting protection against severe disease. So we all need to play our part and co-operate. What restrictions could now be imposed is an issue, now that the doors have been thrown open. I would have introduced a Covid passport and only allowed free access at any time in certain venues for those who held one, and restricted access to a limited number at specific times for those who don't. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 21 Feb 22 7.03pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

COVID vaccinations are already in that range.

What restrictions should be imposed on unvaccinated people?

As you state it varies, and we don't have it yet, and we don't know what level is needed. Until the world reaches a level we don't yet know we must assume it needs to be higher than it is. Covid immunity, either via vaccines or infection, wanes but vaccination provides stronger, longer lasting protection against severe disease. So we all need to play our part and co-operate.

What restrictions could now be imposed is an issue, now that the doors have been thrown open. I would have introduced a Covid passport and only allowed free access at any time in certain venues for those who held one, and restricted access to a limited number at specific times for those who don't.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Teddy Eagle 21 Feb 22 7.07pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle As you state it varies, and we don't have it yet, and we don't know what level is needed. Until the world reaches a level we don't yet know we must assume it needs to be higher than it is. Covid immunity, either via vaccines or infection, wanes but vaccination provides stronger, longer lasting protection against severe disease. So we all need to play our part and co-operate. What restrictions could now be imposed is an issue, now that the doors have been thrown open. I would have introduced a Covid passport and only allowed free access at any time in certain venues for those who held one, and restricted access to a limited number at specific times for those who don't. We already have COVID passports which show vaccination status. Not that anyone ever checked them.
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Teddy Eagle

21 Feb 22 7.07pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

We already have COVID passports which show vaccination status. Not that anyone ever checked them.

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Stirlingsays 21 Feb 22 7.14pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle As you state it varies, and we don't have it yet, and we don't know what level is needed. Until the world reaches a level we don't yet know we must assume it needs to be higher than it is. Covid immunity, either via vaccines or infection, wanes but vaccination provides stronger, longer lasting protection against severe disease. So we all need to play our part and co-operate. What restrictions could now be imposed is an issue, now that the doors have been thrown open. I would have introduced a Covid passport and only allowed free access at any time in certain venues for those who held one, and restricted access to a limited number at specific times for those who don't. Over 98 percent have antibodies.....You just haven't moved on. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

21 Feb 22 7.14pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

What restrictions could now be imposed is an issue, now that the doors have been thrown open. I would have introduced a Covid passport and only allowed free access at any time in certain venues for those who held one, and restricted access to a limited number at specific times for those who don't.

Over 98 percent have antibodies.....You just haven't moved on.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 21 Feb 22 7.29pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I think when it comes down to body autonomy for a disease that isn't going to kill the individual.....the idea that the state should be allowed to forcibly oppose that child's parents is quite incredible....pure authoritarianism. Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Feb 2022 7.01pm) BS. Being uneducated won't kill you. It's for both the child's benefit and that of wider society that it is compulsory. Vaccination is no different. Not caring for your child is seen as child abuse, and can result in removal. When the MMR vaccines can protect against life-threatening diseases they ought to be compulsory. The Covid vaccines are different in that the effects of infection in a child are generally mild, but not so in the older people they can infect. That's when the benefit to wider society becomes important. Just remember this. Jehovah's Witnesses used to be able to refuse blood transfusions for their children. No longer. A clinician is now lawfully able to over-rule the parent's wishes, although they will do their utmost to persuade and co=operate first. So we already have established a legal precedent for health, alongside the established one for education. This has nothing to do with "authoritarianism". It only has to do with ensuring the child's best interests are not abused by parental biases imposing restrictions on them. The child cannot speak for themselves, so sometimes the state must. Again I know I am ahead of the curve, but I don't expect it to be too long before it catches up. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 21 Feb 22 7.29pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Feb 2022 7.01pm)

BS. Being uneducated won't kill you. It's for both the child's benefit and that of wider society that it is compulsory.

Vaccination is no different. Not caring for your child is seen as child abuse, and can result in removal. When the MMR vaccines can protect against life-threatening diseases they ought to be compulsory. The Covid vaccines are different in that the effects of infection in a child are generally mild, but not so in the older people they can infect. That's when the benefit to wider society becomes important.

Just remember this. Jehovah's Witnesses used to be able to refuse blood transfusions for their children. No longer. A clinician is now lawfully able to over-rule the parent's wishes, although they will do their utmost to persuade and co=operate first.

So we already have established a legal precedent for health, alongside the established one for education.

This has nothing to do with "authoritarianism". It only has to do with ensuring the child's best interests are not abused by parental biases imposing restrictions on them. The child cannot speak for themselves, so sometimes the state must.

Again I know I am ahead of the curve, but I don't expect it to be too long before it catches up.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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