Seeing children killed and maimed is terrible, but I would ask exactly how a country should react when a neighbour stages a minor invasion in which it murders, tortures and mutilates women and children, takes hundreds of hostage and then hides in populated areas.

What would you do?

Would you have America abandon it's greatest ally in the Middle East?
Would you be happy to see them abandon us if Russia invades Europe?

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (11 Jan 2024 2.53pm)

Should there?

Let's look at the actual situation rather than dealing in politics.

How does Israel stop Hamas attacking them in the long term?

Rather than singing the same old tune, give me solutions.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (11 Jan 2024 3.53pm)

I think there should, yes - I'm asking your view.

Israel is a rich, military superpower that is more than capable of defending it's borders. The idea that you can destroy an ideology with bombs is just nonsense - Israel's campaign has very little to do with destroying Hamas, as evidence by the indiscriminate nature of their actions.

With respect, you accuse me of 'singing the same old tune' whilst essentially still making the point "what about October 7th" 3 months and 25,000 dead later.

South Africa's began presenting it's case against Israel to the International Court of Justice today - it's been very damning.

Israel will have their opportunity to present tomorrow.

Some quotes from the SA side below;

"All of these acts individually and collectively form a calculated pattern of conduct by Israel indicating a genocidal intent. This intent is evident from Israel’s conduct in:

Targeting Palestinians living in Gaza using weaponry that causes large scale, homicidal destruction, as well as targeted sniping of civilians.

Designating safe zones for Palestinians to seek refuge and then bombing these.

Depriving Palestinians in Gaza of basic needs – food, water, health care, fuel, sanitation, and communications.

Destroying social infrastructure, homes, schools, mosques, churches, hospitals, and killing, seriously injuring, and leaving large numbers of children orphaned.

Genocides are never declared in advance but this court has the benefit of the past 13 weeks of evidence that shows incontrovertibly, a pattern of conduct and related intention that justifies a plausible claim of genocidal acts."

/

Herzog’s comment that “it’s an entire nation out there that is responsible” for the 7 October attack was singled out, and the court was shown a video of Israeli soldiers joyfully singing in Gaza about fulfilling the biblical commandment of destroying Amalek after also being shown video of Netanyahu reminding the Israeli people of King Saul being commanded to destroy all men, women, children and animals of the Amalekite people.

“The scale of destruction in Gaza, the targeting of family homes and civilians, the war being a war on children, all make clear that genocidal intent is both understood and has been put into practice. The articulated intent is the destruction of Palestinian life,” said lawyer Tembeka Ngcukaitobi.

“What state would admit to a genocidal intent? Yet the distinctive feature of this case has not been the silence as such, but the reiteration and repetition of genocidal speech throughout every sphere of the state in Israel,” he said.

/

"In the speeches to this court today, South Africa has chosen as you’ve heard, to avoid the sharing of graphic videos and photos. It has decided against turning this court into a theatre for spectacle. It knows as well as your excellencies the temptation for both sides in a dispute to parade pictures to shock.

South Africa’s application in this court today is built on a foundation of clear legal rights, not images, and the detailed material before the court is marshalled to show a case for provisional measures based firmly on this court’s prior decisions.

South Africa advances its case on the basis that Palestinian’s rights are equally as worthy of protection on the unprecedented evidence before you as those of the victim groups that this honourable court has previously protected by its issuance of provisional measures in the past.

The material confirms the rights and their violation that Israel has committed, and is committing, acts capable of being characterised as genocidal.

You have heard from us about the direct extermination of thousands of people and children of the Palestinian population in Gaza since 7 October last year.

And South Africa and the world together stand witness to the forced evacuation of over 85% of the population of Gaza from their homes, and the herding of them into ever smaller areas without adequate shelter or medical care, to be attacked, killed and harmed.

So the rights are immediately and urgently in need of protection because of the ongoing denial by Israel of the conditions necessary for life."

I think there should, yes - I'm asking your view.

Israel is a rich, military superpower that is more than capable of defending it's borders. The idea that you can destroy an ideology with bombs is just nonsense - Israel's campaign has very little to do with destroying Hamas, as evidence by the indiscriminate nature of their actions.

With respect, you accuse me of 'singing the same old tune' whilst essentially still making the point "what about October 7th" 3 months and 25,000 dead later.