The HOC rises to the Ukrainian 'Churchill' we shall fight in the forests etc.

He is very convincing, a doughty little fighter for his country, no wonder they all applaud.

However I wonder if these deluded people ever stop to think that it was his deliberate non-compliance with the Minsk agreement that has caused this situation, his forces that appear to have subjugated Russian speaking people described as a 'genocide' since 2014?

Did he not describe Russians as 'sub-human'?

For all that he has risen to the occasion but his demise as well as Putin would be entirely welcome.

Sanctions and arming the Ukranian people was inevitable and to be expected. If this was a complete walkover it creates a whole host of additional and constant threats with NATO countries and Russian controlled territory right next door to one another. That and the knowledge of how fast others will give in to demands where there are nuclear threats would be a tool repeated used going forward.

What is happening right in Ukraine has turned into Russia's vulgar bargaining tool. Realistically it was a misstep that has already done immense damage to Ukraine and the lives of ordinary Russian people. It's not about a morality tale. It's that a do nothing approach has significant drawbacks too. Sanctions and a tough Ukrainian resistance are bargaining tools also. Rolling over or turning a blind eye is not.

Videos were posted for purposes to clarifying to the delusional that intentional murder of civilians is taking place (as a couple denied that and trivialized the Ukranian peoples plight to the point of seemingly hoping for their defeat). In all likelihood there are multiple peace talks ongoing. The statements coming out of the Kremlin of late have a bewildered, desperate tone to them.

I would agree that is makes sense to give Putin a way out of this (along with sanctions lifted). But whatever is agreed (demilitarised zones etc for instance) has to stay agreed. You can only give so much in the face of what is happening right now, else it essentially becomes an endorsement of it rather than solution to it. And it's a two way street. There can be no deal for as long as day after day of attacks on cities and civilian areas takes place.

Edited by BlueJay (08 Mar 2022 11.28pm)

I would hope that, while we plan for them, we don't base direct response policies upon over worst case scenarios....that is unnecessary escalation.

If you are talking about non Nato countries being supplied against possible Russian attack, I have no issue with that. However, the rules of conflict must be very clear and that's vital among nuclear nations where a mistake is unthinkable.

I totally accept the siding with the Ukrainians but there are also propaganda issues...for examples their president is literally trying to start a Nato/Russia war and people have a right to notice that as.....kind of a far bigger negative than the sh1tshow already happening.

As for 'do nothing', I don't think anybody serious on this topic suggests that.

That tank video looks like something horrible that happens on battlefields. So I doubt it's propaganda but the general problem with propaganda is that it sows mistrust....mainly because it is often half truth or lies. However, I don't think anyone should be under the delusion that this is horrible and that civilians are dying.

I think with any agreement reached over this....and feck, I have my fingers crossed. Putin will be assured that tensions will be high for some time. Beyond demilitarized zones forces are going to be considerable, everyone expects that.

I can only hope that the peacemakers win quickly, forces pull back and people can be helped....Putin's forces are being contested but soon enough will surround the cities and once cut off from supply it's going to get much worse.

I think Putin knows that this is when a settlement will be reached....I can only hope that the peacemakers win this and even before that happens.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Yes, I would agree with that. Escalation after escalation would become concerning. I'm not saying that we have to ensure that Ukraine come out on top at any cost. Much of what happens is largely out of our hands. As much as the Ukrainians have exceeded expectations, I fearthe worst is yet to come for them.

There are corresponding articles and unfortunately videos of the aftermath that can very clearly be matched against the tank video in a verifiable way. The occupants of the car were an elderly couple. A crap source to use I know but this is the only censored version I could find [Link]

Yes, I do hope that the situation de-escalates as it may develop a momentum or situation that is hard to slow. I hope that something can be done before the Capital is descended upon with full force.

We know It'll be military and security, you'd hope that our intelligence sources know precisely who.

I think he miscalculated and it's clear that the Russia military didn't expect to need most of its forces on the border. If there were plans for Moldova I doubt it would happen now due to how it's gone.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

If there is an attack run your bath and taps straight away to get as much water as you can before it cuts off. Even if you can't boil it you're gonna need that water.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)