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Tawny Croydon 10 Dec 18 7.24pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I'm hardly someone who would deny someone a view, whatever their race. I have my political allegiances and I'm quite correct about the statistics upon how minorities lie up about that....there's no suspicion about it. As for how that relates to an individual that's another matter. When it comes to connecting the charge of 'racism' to Ukippers.....sorry if you find me rather more than a bit cynical. The whole area of 'racism' has been turned into a meme at this point. The left treat what they regard as racists like the Nazis regarded Jews in the thirties.....they just make up stuff and invent monsters so that they can justify their commentary. It's quite funny really....they become what they think they oppose.
This was a comment to hrolf but not to worry. You misunderstood the UKIP comment. It's point was to say that if people hold a view they hold a view. The reasons may be multiple. We can't on one hand childishly kick and scream a variation of "It's because you're black" when a non white person says they're anti Brexit without repeating the same when someone votes in a way to cut down on immigration. To what extent their race dictates their decision is up for debate in each case. The trouble with these polarising forums is that people lose all perspective. You've certainly become what you oppose by the sound of it as do most people motivated by anger.
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Stirlingsays 10 Dec 18 7.25pm | |
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Originally posted by Tawny
You refer here about how this is their country when refering to your own. The Anglo Saxon matra. I can see that you also closely link genetics and a long history in the country as being somehow the pinaccle of being British. Add to the mix comments about violence and certain racial groups due to genetics. To be frank you're teetering on the brink of the view that people are less British or less entitled to claim ownership of the nationality if they are not white. Edited by Tawny (10 Dec 2018 7.09pm) I've always been honest about my opinions. I've stated them often on here. As to this thing about genetics.....Yes, there is an 'anglo saxon' nature to the long term inhabitants of the islands (though anglo saxon is a label) and yes skin colour is an aspect of that.....but it's only one aspect. Much as being a long term inhabitant of Africa means you are black. Yes, I do think that being English means that you should be the majority in England. Without a majority allegiance to England then England will no longer be English.....it's not that complicated. However, I have never stated nor do I believe that skin colour determines whether you can be English. There is a cultural aspect to it. Ultimately I agree with the idea that if you are genuine about becoming a nationality that you can transcend genetics rather easily....Look at Frank Bruno for example.....Genetics is one aspect of a person, not the whole. However the reality is that the majority of people are loyal to the place of their birth or heritage and with mass immigration that creates a real and present danger for the hegemony of the English in their own country. A battle...that statistically has already been lost.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Tawny Croydon 10 Dec 18 7.30pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
It is nothing like saying that and only a complete idiot would think so. I think you will find that the who people obsess about race are minorities. And of course, snowflake liberals with White guilt syndrome.
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Hrolf The Ganger 10 Dec 18 7.32pm | |
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William the First thought that he was entitled to the English crown. He was very lucky that Harold had to march the length of Britain after seeing off Harald Hardrada before they met. Sadly it seems that there are always some scheming Europeans that want our isles for there own ends.
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Stirlingsays 10 Dec 18 7.35pm | |
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Originally posted by Tawny
This was a comment to hrolf but not to worry. You misunderstood the UKIP comment. It's point was to say that if people hold a view they hold a view. The reasons may be multiple. We can't on one hand childishly kick and scream a variation of "It's because you're black" when a non white person says they're anti Brexit without repeating the same when someone votes in a way to cut down on immigration. To what extent their race dictates their decision is up for debate in each case. Well, there's truth in that...the reasons can be different. However, lets not get lost in the fog when the reality isn't that murky. When anyone looks at how minorities vote, it's painfully obvious what's going on....Yes we can talk about individuals but lets not kid ourselves at the group level. A country with high immigration is slowly harming the long term demographic in favour of another. Originally posted by Tawny
Yep, there is truth to it as well.....but what to do. It's the nature of forums. It takes two people willing to take issues seriously to have a serious discussion. I'm not the one comparing people to Josef Mengele like we have already seen in the thread......It's a variation of Godwin's law. Edited by Stirlingsays (10 Dec 2018 7.37pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Tawny Croydon 10 Dec 18 7.39pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I've always been honest about my opinions. I've stated them often on here. As to this thing about genetics.....Yes, there is an 'anglo saxon' nature to the long term inhabitants of the islands (though anglo saxon is a label) and yes skin colour is an aspect of that.....but it's only one aspect. Much as being a long term inhabitant of Africa means you are black. Yes, I do think that being English means that you should be the majority in England. Without a majority allegiance to England then England will no longer be English.....it's not that complicated. However, I have never stated nor do I believe that skin colour determines whether you can be English. There is a cultural aspect to it. Ultimately I agree with the idea that if you are genuine about becoming a nationality that you can transcend genetics rather easily....Look at Frank Bruno for example.....Genetics is one aspect of a person, not the whole. However the reality is that the majority of people are loyal to the place of their birth or heritage and with mass immigration that creates a real and present danger for the hegemony of the English in their own country. A battle...that statistically has already been lost.
I agree with your words on immigration though yes as it stands to reason in that sitiation.
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Hrolf The Ganger 10 Dec 18 7.41pm | |
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Originally posted by Tawny
More lies and slurs. Is that all you have comrade? Are you denying the relationship between minority interests and Remain? Deluded. No, just deliberately obtuse. Can you restrict yourself to one sockpuppet.
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Hrolf The Ganger 10 Dec 18 7.45pm | |
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Originally posted by Tawny
I agree with your words on immigration though yes as it stands to reason in that sitiation. So you think that immigrants should make no effort to integrate into society and adopt English traditions? Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (10 Dec 2018 7.46pm)
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Tawny Croydon 10 Dec 18 7.50pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
More lies and slurs. Is that all you have comrade? Are you denying the relationship between minority interests and Remain? Deluded. No, just deliberately obtuse. Can you restrict yourself to one sockpuppet. It's not a lie or a slur. I can't imagine anyone else bothering to type it up when they see a couple of non whites on TV saying they support a peoples vote. If you're going to launch into these things don't then get all indignant about it when others hold a view. You're free to colour count, I'm free to dislike it.
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Stirlingsays 10 Dec 18 7.50pm | |
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Originally posted by Tawny
I agree with your words on immigration though yes as it stands to reason in that sitiation. Yes, Frank Bruno is English with Jamaican heritage. However, the people who most oppose this idea of being English are most commonly those born here but who have non European heritage. The most common designation is calling themselves British....which has become a catch all....But you are right, if you are born in England you are English. Bruno isn't one of those people who have a problem with seeing themselves as English....indeed he's a rare example of a black Tory, he's an old school in lots of ways and isn't your typical case. The English nationality is in genuine threat in England......not in my lifetime but in my children's....and the English have a right to being the hegemony in their own land. I never use to concern myself with my identity, because I never felt I needed to.....but as an old git I see what's coming down the line for my children and I'm not happy about it. Edited by Stirlingsays (10 Dec 2018 7.52pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Tawny Croydon 10 Dec 18 7.54pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
So you think that immigrants should make no effort to integrate into society and adopt English traditions? Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (10 Dec 2018 7.46pm) Where on earth you've got that from I have no idea. Frank Bruno isn't an immigrant. To you perhaps, but he isn't. My entirely point is that he was born here so doesn't need to prove himself to be English just because he doesn't have a certain set of genes or isn't white. By default he is English. I even went to pains in that very post to state that I agreed that this doesn't apply to immigrants to the country because their situation is entirely different from that of someone born here. You really don't help yourself do you. Edited by Tawny (10 Dec 2018 7.55pm)
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Hrolf The Ganger 10 Dec 18 7.57pm | |
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Originally posted by Tawny
It's not a lie or a slur. I can't imagine anyone else bothering to type it up when they see a couple of non whites on TV saying they support a peoples vote. If you're going to launch into these things don't then get all indignant about it when others hold a view. You're free to colour count, I'm free to dislike it. Just feel free to admit you are Gussett. If you think that people don't associate and have mutual interests based on so called race, then you are a loon.
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