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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 07 Feb 22 11.15pm
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle Are they particularly hesitant? Vaccine take up in Austria is 3% higher than England. I think that depends on which data you are looking at. One suggests we are at 77% and Austria 75%. Another study, measured in the number of doses administered per 100 people, has the UK at 203 and Austria at 196, the second lowest in Europe. We aren't doing that well either! For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 07 Feb 22 11.15pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Are they particularly hesitant? Vaccine take up in Austria is 3% higher than England.

I think that depends on which data you are looking at. One suggests we are at 77% and Austria 75%.

Another study, measured in the number of doses administered per 100 people, has the UK at 203 and Austria at 196, the second lowest in Europe.

We aren't doing that well either!

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Teddy Eagle 07 Feb 22 11.27pm
According to the BBC Austria is 4% ahead of the UK. [Link]
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Teddy Eagle

07 Feb 22 11.27pm

According to the BBC Austria is 4% ahead of the UK.

[Link]

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eaglesdare 08 Feb 22 10.17am
Originally posted by BlueJay Nobody is saying that people are required to become Mr Motivator. Certainly habits over decades can take their toll on health, but if people find themselves in a position where choices or actions that take 5 seconds are also resulting in their hospitalisation, perhaps they should consider whether they are making good choices. Its takes 5 seconds to put that drink down and not drink it! takes 5 seconds to decide not to buy a packet of cigarettes and it takes 5 seconds to decide not to do any drugs!
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eaglesdare

08 Feb 22 10.17am

Originally posted by BlueJay

Nobody is saying that people are required to become Mr Motivator. Certainly habits over decades can take their toll on health, but if people find themselves in a position where choices or actions that take 5 seconds are also resulting in their hospitalisation, perhaps they should consider whether they are making good choices.

Its takes 5 seconds to put that drink down and not drink it! takes 5 seconds to decide not to buy a packet of cigarettes and it takes 5 seconds to decide not to do any drugs!

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 08 Feb 22 11.11am
Originally posted by eaglesdare Its takes 5 seconds to put that drink down and not drink it! takes 5 seconds to decide not to buy a packet of cigarettes and it takes 5 seconds to decide not to do any drugs! You don't get addicted to vaccinations. You do it once every 6 months, as a maximum. It's not taking much out of your life relative to the benefit it brings, both to you and everyone else. Smokers produce no benefit. They cause harm several times a day, sometimes several times every hour. Heavy drinkers and drug abusers, those who cause problems, likewise. Vaccinations keep you, and others, out of hospital. Smoking, drinking and drug abuse can put you in there, and deny others a bed that they need for something they could not have avoided. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 08 Feb 22 11.11am

Originally posted by eaglesdare

Its takes 5 seconds to put that drink down and not drink it! takes 5 seconds to decide not to buy a packet of cigarettes and it takes 5 seconds to decide not to do any drugs!

You don't get addicted to vaccinations.

You do it once every 6 months, as a maximum. It's not taking much out of your life relative to the benefit it brings, both to you and everyone else.

Smokers produce no benefit. They cause harm several times a day, sometimes several times every hour.

Heavy drinkers and drug abusers, those who cause problems, likewise.

Vaccinations keep you, and others, out of hospital. Smoking, drinking and drug abuse can put you in there, and deny others a bed that they need for something they could not have avoided.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Stirlingsays 08 Feb 22 11.37am
Oh how the critics of religion moralise over how others lead their lives. The irony is somewhat amusing. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

08 Feb 22 11.37am

Oh how the critics of religion moralise over how others lead their lives.

The irony is somewhat amusing.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 08 Feb 22 1.12pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Oh how the critics of religion moralise over how others lead their lives. The irony is somewhat amusing. Who has criticised religion? If people find comfort, community and purpose in religious belief that ought to be OK with everyone. It is with me. My attitude is based on its presence on the public square, in spaces and ways that impact those who do not share the belief. Respect is a two-way street. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 08 Feb 22 1.12pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Oh how the critics of religion moralise over how others lead their lives.

The irony is somewhat amusing.

Who has criticised religion?

If people find comfort, community and purpose in religious belief that ought to be OK with everyone. It is with me.

My attitude is based on its presence on the public square, in spaces and ways that impact those who do not share the belief.

Respect is a two-way street.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Stirlingsays 08 Feb 22 1.31pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Who has criticised religion? If people find comfort, community and purpose in religious belief that ought to be OK with everyone. It is with me. My attitude is based on its presence on the public square, in spaces and ways that impact those who do not share the belief. Respect is a two-way street. Your position on religion is extremist. I have literally never heard even one other person on Hol suggest that all religion be removed from the 'public square'. It's quite amusing that you question whether you're criticising.....Like debating with a squirrel over whether it eats nuts or not.....Maybe you'd like to link to a site that says that squirrels eating nuts is a myth and 'debunks' it. Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Feb 2022 1.32pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

08 Feb 22 1.31pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Who has criticised religion?

If people find comfort, community and purpose in religious belief that ought to be OK with everyone. It is with me.

My attitude is based on its presence on the public square, in spaces and ways that impact those who do not share the belief.

Respect is a two-way street.

Your position on religion is extremist.

I have literally never heard even one other person on Hol suggest that all religion be removed from the 'public square'.

It's quite amusing that you question whether you're criticising.....Like debating with a squirrel over whether it eats nuts or not.....Maybe you'd like to link to a site that says that squirrels eating nuts is a myth and 'debunks' it.

Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Feb 2022 1.32pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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BlueJay UK 08 Feb 22 1.38pm
Originally posted by eaglesdare Its takes 5 seconds to put that drink down and not drink it! takes 5 seconds to decide not to buy a packet of cigarettes and it takes 5 seconds to decide not to do any drugs! It's just not a very good parallel as it typically takes tens of thousands of actions of 'that' drink' , likely more with smoking to seriously damage health. And where it doesn't, as in someone drinking way too much and needing their stomach pumped again and again it's hardly greeted with a high five. The point I was making is that even at the time when the vast majority of people were vaccinated, a very significant proportion in intensive care were 'still' unvaccinated. Is that their choice? Yes. Did it turn out to be a pretty stupid one considering how little time and effort it takes to get vaccinated and likely avoid that situation? Yes. Is it a positive that at it's height this was happening daily (in terms of being hospitalised) in the thousands. No. Not every point needs to be revisited forever more. I'm not saying anything that most don't get, and that you didn't get vaccinated is your choice. I'm just replying since your reply was to me. I'm not much interested on talking about covid anymore. It doesn't achieve anything of note, and in large part is conversations about 'shoulds' and 'coulds' of the past, so is less relevant now anyway. Edited by BlueJay (08 Feb 2022 1.50pm)
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BlueJay

UK 08 Feb 22 1.38pm

Originally posted by eaglesdare

Its takes 5 seconds to put that drink down and not drink it! takes 5 seconds to decide not to buy a packet of cigarettes and it takes 5 seconds to decide not to do any drugs!

It's just not a very good parallel as it typically takes tens of thousands of actions of 'that' drink' , likely more with smoking to seriously damage health. And where it doesn't, as in someone drinking way too much and needing their stomach pumped again and again it's hardly greeted with a high five.

The point I was making is that even at the time when the vast majority of people were vaccinated, a very significant proportion in intensive care were 'still' unvaccinated. Is that their choice? Yes. Did it turn out to be a pretty stupid one considering how little time and effort it takes to get vaccinated and likely avoid that situation? Yes. Is it a positive that at it's height this was happening daily (in terms of being hospitalised) in the thousands. No.

Not every point needs to be revisited forever more. I'm not saying anything that most don't get, and that you didn't get vaccinated is your choice. I'm just replying since your reply was to me. I'm not much interested on talking about covid anymore. It doesn't achieve anything of note, and in large part is conversations about 'shoulds' and 'coulds' of the past, so is less relevant now anyway.

Edited by BlueJay (08 Feb 2022 1.50pm)

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 08 Feb 22 1.58pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I never considered not getting vaccinated. It looked such a "no-brainer" to me that anyone deciding that either they, or those they are responsible for, wouldn't be, just seemed crazy. I have sympathy for those whose minds have been polluted by the nonsense circulated of the anti-vax campaign, but if reassurance doesn't work then a resolute approach is needed. I reject the idea that perfectly safe, tested and approved vaccines should be withheld from children by their parents, if it is considered necessary by society that they be given. Whether that be MMR or Covid. What state their own immune systems are in is an irrelevance and those whose reasoning is "vaccines they had no real danger from", totally miss the point. It's whether them being vaccinated improves overall public health that matters. A US teenager is suing his anti-vax mother for not getting him the MMR vaccine. Could this be the start of a trend? Could we see a grandparent, having lost their husband or wife, sue the anti-vax parent of a child who infected their lost partner? It would be difficult to prove, but I can imagine someone trying. Getting the world vaccinated is the quickest, and safest, way to end a pandemic. Omicron is helping with this one, but it's not a "get out of jail free" card for the unvaccinated. We need to get the world used to being vaccinated. That means defeating the misinformation merchants and those who profit from them. It also means that those who refuse to help, on the basis of personal choice, must expect consequences. We need everybody on board the bus. Those who don't get a ticket, don't get to ride back to destination normality. They will have to take another, slower route. Seek help. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 08 Feb 22 1.58pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I never considered not getting vaccinated. It looked such a "no-brainer" to me that anyone deciding that either they, or those they are responsible for, wouldn't be, just seemed crazy. I have sympathy for those whose minds have been polluted by the nonsense circulated of the anti-vax campaign, but if reassurance doesn't work then a resolute approach is needed.

I reject the idea that perfectly safe, tested and approved vaccines should be withheld from children by their parents, if it is considered necessary by society that they be given. Whether that be MMR or Covid. What state their own immune systems are in is an irrelevance and those whose reasoning is "vaccines they had no real danger from", totally miss the point. It's whether them being vaccinated improves overall public health that matters. A US teenager is suing his anti-vax mother for not getting him the MMR vaccine. Could this be the start of a trend? Could we see a grandparent, having lost their husband or wife, sue the anti-vax parent of a child who infected their lost partner? It would be difficult to prove, but I can imagine someone trying.

Getting the world vaccinated is the quickest, and safest, way to end a pandemic. Omicron is helping with this one, but it's not a "get out of jail free" card for the unvaccinated. We need to get the world used to being vaccinated. That means defeating the misinformation merchants and those who profit from them.

It also means that those who refuse to help, on the basis of personal choice, must expect consequences. We need everybody on board the bus. Those who don't get a ticket, don't get to ride back to destination normality. They will have to take another, slower route.

Seek help.

COYP

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eaglesdare 08 Feb 22 2.00pm
Originally posted by BlueJay It's just not a very good parallel as it typically takes tens of thousands of actions of 'that' drink' , likely more with smoking to seriously damage health. And where it doesn't, as in someone drinking way too much and needing their stomach pumped again and again it's hardly greeted with a high five. The point I was making is that even at the time when the vast majority of people were vaccinated, a very significant proportion in intensive care were 'still' unvaccinated. Is that their choice? Yes. Did it turn out to be a pretty stupid one considering how little time and effort it takes to get vaccinated and likely avoid that situation? Yes. Is it a positive that at it's height this was happening daily (in terms of being hospitalised) in the thousands. No. Not every point needs to be revisited forever more. I'm not saying anything that most don't get, and that you didn't get vaccinated is your choice. I'm just replying since your reply was to me. I'm not much interested on talking about covid anymore. It doesn't achieve anything of note, and in large part is conversations about 'shoulds' and 'coulds' of the past, so is less relevant now anyway. Edited by BlueJay (08 Feb 2022 1.50pm) I just think its very selfish of people to continue to drink, smoke and do drugs when it leads to taking up hospital beds from people who actually need them. a quick check on the NHS website you will see the number of people admitted to hospitals for these reasons is ridiculously high. Anyways sure covid is all but gone now so no need to continue talking about!
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eaglesdare

08 Feb 22 2.00pm

Originally posted by BlueJay

Edited by BlueJay (08 Feb 2022 1.50pm)

I just think its very selfish of people to continue to drink, smoke and do drugs when it leads to taking up hospital beds from people who actually need them. a quick check on the NHS website you will see the number of people admitted to hospitals for these reasons is ridiculously high.

Anyways sure covid is all but gone now so no need to continue talking about!

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eaglesdare 08 Feb 22 2.02pm
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman Seek help. todays conspiracy theory and nuts prediction is 6 months from now reality.....
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eaglesdare

08 Feb 22 2.02pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

Seek help.

todays conspiracy theory and nuts prediction is 6 months from now reality.....

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 08 Feb 22 2.05pm
Originally posted by BlueJay I'll have very likely stopped wearing a mask and getting vaccinated by the time people are still moaning at me about how they are expected to do so (or how I still should) . Beyond a point I'm not sure it's useful for me to plunge myself into these never ending covid discussions. These things end up a butting of heads, rather than exchange of ideas no matter how much I try to offer a broad and sensible view rather than something particularly ideology driven. I'm not wedded enough to any of these ideas to kick the ball back anymore. Enjoy the discussion! I think many will be waiting for the memo from government to return to normal. Go into Waitrose or Sainsbury’s daytime during the week and you’ll know what I mean. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 08 Feb 22 2.05pm

Originally posted by BlueJay

I'll have very likely stopped wearing a mask and getting vaccinated by the time people are still moaning at me about how they are expected to do so (or how I still should) .

Beyond a point I'm not sure it's useful for me to plunge myself into these never ending covid discussions. These things end up a butting of heads, rather than exchange of ideas no matter how much I try to offer a broad and sensible view rather than something particularly ideology driven. I'm not wedded enough to any of these ideas to kick the ball back anymore. Enjoy the discussion!

I think many will be waiting for the memo from government to return to normal. Go into Waitrose or Sainsbury’s daytime during the week and you’ll know what I mean.

COYP

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