It's certainly fair to question to what extent a person should do something for others when they themselves are in the least at risk categories. I'm not really talking about those people here though, as I would say they're less frequently in a perilous position (Intensive care) than most. People are free to make whatever decision they wish. For those who recover, when the NHS has dug the unvaccinated out of the hole they unfortunately reasoned themselves into, there is thankfully no bill at the end of it. They just often aren't necessarily viewed in the same light by many as those who put themselves in the best position they could. That's a fair stance to hold, and one held by many.

As you infer, and is the case most have at least some antibodies now anyway (in large part due to the vaccination effort) and following natural infections (with continued good reason to believe that the combination of the two leaves people best placed). It's no secret that due to initial lack of access to vaccinations, or poor choices once available, or bad luck or bad health even once vaccinated, that many had unfortunate outcomes and that going forward there will likely be less of that on all counts. Plus people will actually know how the virus impacts them. A valuable position for all to be in.

Edited by BlueJay (07 Feb 2022 7.33pm)

They haven't been rejected at all. They haven't yet been adopted. Whether, or when, they might be, depends on a number of things.

The approach in Austria has been adopted there now because of the higher level of vaccine hesitancy there. I am sure it's progress will be closely observed and lessons learned. Behavioural science teaches that optimum outcomes aren't always immediately available. Patience may be needed, alongside persuasion.

The most recent statistics on antibodies was referenced a few days ago and is very, very far from irrelevant. To refresh memories:-

[Link]

The high quality antibodies detected in this study, produced by a mix of several vaccines/infections, will be effective in fighting future variants. Reliance on the fading, weaker, protection of natural infection alone is foolish. As is complacency.

Wishing the pandemic is over won't do anything. You don't lower your guard when there could still be an assassin hiding in the shadows.

Get vaccinated. Get boosted. Raise your protection to the highest level possible. Don't spread it and don't take up a hospital bed you could have avoided with a few quick visits to a vaccination centre. That bed, and all the resources which supports it, are desperately needed by others.

Don't be selfish. Think of others.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Are they particularly hesitant? Vaccine take up in Austria is 3% higher than England.

You're inventing positions for people. I've not said that people can't make choices in their own lives, and have clearly highlighted the difference between living a full life and experiencing a health issue, as opposed the current situation. The vast majority understand that difference.

I dare say if we had 4000 people in hospital days in a row due to motorbike crashes we would look at it in a different light. We know that very significant numbers of those in hospital were unvaccinated even when the vast majority were vaccinated. That is certainly good reason to question their decision and see clear fault in it. I'm not sure I need lessons from you on how to treat or talk about others.

Multiple multi year studies speak to the significance of a vaccine + natural infection combination as being the most powerful in terms of antibodies produced. As it happens several CDC studies also show protection against Delta was highest in people who were both vaccinated 'and' had survived a previous COVID infection. Protection was still significant in those with natural infection (even compared to vaccination alone) against this particularly strain. I'm not saying that there are not contrary views. I'm simply following the data and studies as it falls and will continue to do so. I'm not the one wedded to ideas or politics in this.

There's something to be said for looking to what is being said and finding the commonalities. You appear to latch onto any remaining points of disagreement and turn entire discussions into that.

What that link said seems to be pretty different to Campbell's analysis and indeed the graphs he showed....then again those cities enacted policies that were extremely pro lockdown and restrictive. Anyway I'll leave that there.

I don't know how many times I've said vaccines were sensible for the vulnerable and elderly. As for the rest of it....surely we are just repeating ourselves.

Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Feb 2022 10.54pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

I'll have very likely stopped wearing a mask and getting vaccinated by the time people are still moaning at me about how they are expected to do so (or how I still should) .

Beyond a point I'm not sure it's useful for me to plunge myself into these never ending covid discussions. These things end up a butting of heads, rather than exchange of ideas no matter how much I try to offer a broad and sensible view rather than something particularly ideology driven. I'm not wedded enough to any of these ideas to kick the ball back anymore. Enjoy the discussion!