Firstly the fact that the majority want to see immigration from Muslim countries limited, or even banned, has no bearing at all on the issue. The majority want to bring back hanging, but we don't do it. We operate in a representative democracy in which we pay people to study the issues and take decisions on our behalf. This is why we should never hold a referendum on any issue. Popularism as a means to govern is a disaster, as Trump is proving. We cannot allow ourselves to be governed by base instincts. Our only role is to choose who represents us. That's the way we do things and to think otherwise is to be truly deluded.

That the current levels of pakistani and Bangladeshi inflow, and the way they are arriving, needs to be changed is without doubt. I think you need to wait a while to see the impact of the much tougher family route immigration requirements that have quietly been introduced in recent years before making too many judgements. It must be having a direct impact on numbers and forcing the communities to marry locally, rather than by arrangement back in their "home" countries. The checks now being made, alongside the financial requirements are long and stringent. It will be interesting to see the more recent figures because if, as I anticipate, they have dropped significantly this will be a big step towards modifying the outcome. I also anticipate that the young people involved, especially the girls, will welcome the change.

Once the growth is contained, as it will be because it must be, then the work on ensuring that every citizen adheres to British values can proceed. There is much to do. Dispersing ethnic communities more widely takes time. Ensuring English is the first language requires much effort. It has though been done before, and can again. I just don't buy the idea that Islam is so different that those of that faith are beyond our reach. People are people and once they have the information available they have the brains to process it. There are plenty of examples already.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

And that is where the naivety lies.
You have over a billion people who have followed some one who married 9 year old.
It took my brain about a second to work out that there is something fundamentally wrong with this.
However, over a billion people over many centuries still follow.
As you said tho, people are people.

I am about 1/3rd my way through but already have the gist of the report, it's conclusions and recommendations. It's a well researched and comprehensive piece of work which is thought provoking. I am sure that it's conclusions will be taken seriously by policy makers.

Some things stand out to me. Right wingers, like "Robinson" can draw little comfort from it for it's whole approach seems driven by the need to avoid the impact of the extremists, either within the Muslim community, or from the far right. The report goes out of it's way to specifically make this clear. Indeed it suggests that Muslim and right wing extremists have more in common with each other, than with the rest of us.

The thing though that most surprised me was the level of marriages that are between British Muslims of pakistani and Bangladeshi origin, and spouses from their "home" countries. I was aware that it happened, but not that the level appears to be so high. These have to be arranged in some way and absolutely need to stop, especially as they are often between cousins. What is not generally known is that the family route to settlement has become much, much tougher and expensive in recent years. I have personal experience of this, having been twice married to a foreign national, firstly in 2002 and again in 2016. The difference between the two processes is extreme. In 2002 it was a breeze. In 2016 it was torture. It now costs a lot of money and you need to show a reasonable income, and separate accommodation before you even start. Make even a simple mistake and your application is refused and your fees lost. They refuse whenever there is the slightest doubt that the relationship is genuine, has existed for a long time and is sustainable. Then there is the NHS surcharge to pay. This must be having an impact. It took me a month to prepare all the documents and I am pretty skilled with these kind of things. It will be interesting to know what the current situation is, but I suspect it is much changed.

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (08 Aug 2018 11.55am)

Edited by Guntrisoft (09 Aug 2018 11.32am)

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

I think there are one or two Christians still around.

Mohammed seems to tick quite a few boxes in Revelation's descriptions of the false prophet.

Is that false prophet like payday
In the bank ,out the bank.

It will because it has to and always has done in the past. Most posting here seem to assume that things will simply progress on the same track and that there won't be any interventions. I disagree because there already have been. Not widely publicised nor appreciated but done quietly to avoid confrontation and controversy.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.