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 Wisbech Eagle  Truro Cornwall 04 Feb 22 2.37pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Oh so you are a fan of Churchill now.....I very much doubt you would agree with him on much else. This is thinking of eighty years ago. The thinking in similar to what fascist or communists would say. The only difference is that we can vote out one version of very limited choices who all have to bow to unelected forces.....still the case in Churchill's time but less powerful.
The principles of British democracy remain unaltered. That some try to usurp them via populism has to be resisted. I respect Churchill as a man of his time, much in the same way I respect Thatcher. Both of them understood that their role was to lead, and deliver what the people needed, and not what they wanted. Both would have wept in dismay at the way our politics has disintegrated. I am though not a "fan" of either.
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| Stirlingsays 04 Feb 22 2.38pm |
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I've been told that my thinking is dangerous. But nothing I support has any power. You on the other hand.....you rick your back supporting those who wield global power with no checks or accountability.....but they certainly have cheques.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 04 Feb 22 2.39pm |
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Originally posted by W12
Gates himself said he makes a 20x return on his vaccine investments. Do you not remember what he got up to at Microsoft? Are you not aware of what he was getting up to in India and Africa with his wonderful vaccine trials that killed and sterilised many? The man has made his living out of cornering entire markets in the must underhand ways and that;'s exactly what he's trying to do now. You definitely read too many dodgy websites used by conspiracy theorists.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 04 Feb 22 2.40pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I've been told that my thinking is dangerous. But nothing I support has any power. You on the other hand.....you rick your back supporting those who wield global power with no checks or accountability.....but they certainly have cheques.
I support democracy.
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| W12 04 Feb 22 2.51pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I support democracy. There is no democracy
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| Stirlingsays 04 Feb 22 2.52pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I support democracy. Yeah, we all believe you. Especially Bill Hicks.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Eden Eagle Kent 04 Feb 22 3.14pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Outcomes are what matter, not political dogma. You cherry-picked two states. I provided a link to the bigger picture. Looking at only pieces of a puzzle will never enable the whole to be seen. The truth though isn't that Florida outperformed California! It did economically but did not when measured on health. So it depends on what you believe to be most important. Things seem to be getting worse in Florida. This is from a local site. Take a look and do read the comments too, as they are apposite:- WIsbech - there was no “cherry picking” whatsoever, you said you were struggling with a comparison so I suggested comparing US States California and Florida as they have similar climates and also took very different strategies. You supplied the “evidence” with your link and, unfortunately for you, the evidence as detailed in the link YOU provided showed that overall Florida performed better than California and it is actually you who is cherry picking the data by referring to health only when the comparison was based on a number of indicators. From the link you provided it is clear that California with it’s strict mandates and severe lockdowns overall performed worse than Florida who adopted a much lighter touch approach. I know from your numerous posts that you have advocated harsh lockdowns, further Government control and mandatory vaccinations so I guess you will be disappointed with the results from the link that you provided.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 04 Feb 22 3.37pm |
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Originally posted by Eden Eagle
WIsbech - there was no “cherry picking” whatsoever, you said you were struggling with a comparison so I suggested comparing US States California and Florida as they have similar climates and also took very different strategies. You supplied the “evidence” with your link and, unfortunately for you, the evidence as detailed in the link YOU provided showed that overall Florida performed better than California and it is actually you who is cherry picking the data by referring to health only when the comparison was based on a number of indicators. From the link you provided it is clear that California with it’s strict mandates and severe lockdowns overall performed worse than Florida who adopted a much lighter touch approach. I know from your numerous posts that you have advocated harsh lockdowns, further Government control and mandatory vaccinations so I guess you will be disappointed with the results from the link that you provided. When there are 50 states to choose from, picking just 2 seems like cherry-picking to me. Nevertheless, even if you decide to use the favourite of the anti-lockdown advocates, Florida, you have decided that the most important aspect, to my mind at least, which is health, has been outweighed simply because there are 3 other measurements. For me, health is the primary factor. Nothing, on its own or in combination, matters more. As you can tell, that's now getting worse. So no, I am not disappointed at all, because I am not the least surprised by this. Like so many who don't agree with the lockdowns you dismiss their impact on public health and want to prioritise other things. Economies recover, often pretty quickly. Dead people don't. Florida is governed by a Trump supporting Republican, whose approach on the pandemic is not universally accepted there. Read those comments. Let's look back in 5 to 10 years time when these events can be seen in context. Only then will the reality be clear.
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| Eden Eagle Kent 04 Feb 22 4.42pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
When there are 50 states to choose from, picking just 2 seems like cherry-picking to me. Nevertheless, even if you decide to use the favourite of the anti-lockdown advocates, Florida, you have decided that the most important aspect, to my mind at least, which is health, has been outweighed simply because there are 3 other measurements. For me, health is the primary factor. Nothing, on its own or in combination, matters more. As you can tell, that's now getting worse. So no, I am not disappointed at all, because I am not the least surprised by this. Like so many who don't agree with the lockdowns you dismiss their impact on public health and want to prioritise other things. Economies recover, often pretty quickly. Dead people don't. Florida is governed by a Trump supporting Republican, whose approach on the pandemic is not universally accepted there. Read those comments. Let's look back in 5 to 10 years time when these events can be seen in context. Only then will the reality be clear. I did not have the data WE to cherry pick - you provided the data and based on this Florida performed better. You are correct though that I was/am anti-lockdown. Those people that died due to missed cancer screenings etc are also victims of the lockdown policy that you advocate not to mention the children whose education continues to be ruined through these policies. Not sure we will need 5 to 10 years tfor the reality to be clear - I think it is starting to look quite clear already.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 04 Feb 22 6.23pm |
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Originally posted by Eden Eagle
I did not have the data WE to cherry pick - you provided the data and based on this Florida performed better. You are correct though that I was/am anti-lockdown. Those people that died due to missed cancer screenings etc are also victims of the lockdown policy that you advocate not to mention the children whose education continues to be ruined through these policies. Not sure we will need 5 to 10 years tfor the reality to be clear - I think it is starting to look quite clear already. Yes I provided the data for all 50 states. You decided to look only at Florida and California, and then decided that the health metric was not so important as the others. I also provided a survey of the best, and worst, 10 states, which indicated that the Republican controlled ones scored badly in both. 9-1 in the worst list. Of course missed appointments etc, impacted people but if you think not locking down would have improved that then you are living in cloud-cuckoo-land. Letting the virus spread unchecked would have overwhelmed the health service and the impact on every one, including cancer sufferers would have been much worse. No-one likes lockdowns, but faced with a pandemic and no vaccines or treatments, we had to buy time until they could be developed. It was the least bad option. Right now I think it is very clear it was the right thing to do in the circumstances we faced. Exercising caution is always to be preferred to a reckless disregard for the unknown. 5 to 10 years from now we will be able to see things in a more focussed context, learned lessons and will be better prepared for the next. However, faced with similar circumstances I would expect us to do much the same. How we manage education might be different, but we would still need to make sure the young cannot infect the older.
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Teddy Eagle  04 Feb 22 6.34pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Yes I provided the data for all 50 states. You decided to look only at Florida and California, and then decided that the health metric was not so important as the others. I also provided a survey of the best, and worst, 10 states, which indicated that the Republican controlled ones scored badly in both. 9-1 in the worst list. Of course missed appointments etc, impacted people but if you think not locking down would have improved that then you are living in cloud-cuckoo-land. Letting the virus spread unchecked would have overwhelmed the health service and the impact on every one, including cancer sufferers would have been much worse. No-one likes lockdowns, but faced with a pandemic and no vaccines or treatments, we had to buy time until they could be developed. It was the least bad option. Right now I think it is very clear it was the right thing to do in the circumstances we faced. Exercising caution is always to be preferred to a reckless disregard for the unknown. 5 to 10 years from now we will be able to see things in a more focussed context, learned lessons and will be better prepared for the next. However, faced with similar circumstances I would expect us to do much the same. How we manage education might be different, but we would still need to make sure the young cannot infect the older. Wouldn’t sacking 80,000 unvaccinated staff members cause the NHS to be overwhelmed ?
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| Eden Eagle Kent 04 Feb 22 8.01pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Yes I provided the data for all 50 states. You decided to look only at Florida and California, and then decided that the health metric was not so important as the others. I also provided a survey of the best, and worst, 10 states, which indicated that the Republican controlled ones scored badly in both. 9-1 in the worst list. Of course missed appointments etc, impacted people but if you think not locking down would have improved that then you are living in cloud-cuckoo-land. Letting the virus spread unchecked would have overwhelmed the health service and the impact on every one, including cancer sufferers would have been much worse. No-one likes lockdowns, but faced with a pandemic and no vaccines or treatments, we had to buy time until they could be developed. It was the least bad option. Right now I think it is very clear it was the right thing to do in the circumstances we faced. Exercising caution is always to be preferred to a reckless disregard for the unknown. 5 to 10 years from now we will be able to see things in a more focussed context, learned lessons and will be better prepared for the next. However, faced with similar circumstances I would expect us to do much the same. How we manage education might be different, but we would still need to make sure the young cannot infect the older. Ok WE - to clarify - I suggested comparing Florida and California as you were struggling to make any comparison- you then did your research and produced the data which ranked the performance of all States during the pandemic based on a number of factors. Your data ranked the performance of Florida as being better than California - it really is quite simple and clear. If you take 5 minutes and review this thread you will see that the suggestion of Florida to compare with California came from me before you provided the data therefore your comment about me looking at the data and then selecting California and Florida is clearly incorrect. To make it easier for you - it was posted yesterday at 5:48 There is nothing wrong in admitting that you are mistaken.
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