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 Eden Eagle  Kent 03 Feb 22 5.48pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I have been thinking about the claims made in this study of the effects of lockdowns on Covid 19 mortality and realised there is a fundamental flaw in the conclusions being drawn. I doubt whether this was the intention of those who conducted the study. More likely it's by those jumping on it as confirmation of their already determined opinions. Aka prejudice. Leaving aside how the death rate from C19 is best measured, as that's a separate debate, looking only at how much lockdowns have impacted that, has to be an impossibility. Why? Because no data exists for identical situations in which we didn't lockdown. How many deaths would have occurred if widespread transmission had happened prior to the vaccination programme, with a shortage of hospital resources, beds and especially respirators? Whilst we don't have an identical situation to compare, we can still make valid comparisons. Look at Brazil: Why not compare the different states in the US - those, mainly Democrat, states that advocated harsh lockdowns and mask mandates with mandatory vaccines versus those, mainly Republican, who were taking a different approach with less strict mandates? For example California compared to Florida?
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| W12 03 Feb 22 7.04pm | |
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Originally posted by Eden Eagle
Why not compare the different states in the US - those, mainly Democrat, states that advocated harsh lockdowns and mask mandates with mandatory vaccines versus those, mainly Republican, who were taking a different approach with less strict mandates? For example California compared to Florida? Because he can’t work out which “experts” he’s outsourced his own common sense to.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 03 Feb 22 10.11pm |
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Originally posted by Eden Eagle
Why not compare the different states in the US - those, mainly Democrat, states that advocated harsh lockdowns and mask mandates with mandatory vaccines versus those, mainly Republican, who were taking a different approach with less strict mandates? For example California compared to Florida? It hardly matters whether Democrats or Republicans run the state. What matters is whether everything is equal. Climate, rural, urban, population density, demographics, etc. As none are, as you can imagine, it's neither easy nor clear. It seems people have though tried to measure things. Some on the economics, some on health. This is the most comprehensive I have found so far, but what the overall conclusion is, isn't so easy:- You might be interested in this, which rates the 10 best, and 10 worst performing states during the pandemic. It's interesting that there are 6 Democratic states to 4 Republican in the best list, and only 1 Democratic to 9 Republican in the worst:- Of course, it's only one survey, but this journal is known for analysing the best, and worst aspects of a variety of things in the USA, using a set of metrics. So they have some experience, and a track record.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| W12 03 Feb 22 10.42pm | |
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Who to believe? The minority who are literally losing their careers in order to speak out and have the strength of character to take abuse from the narrative controllers for zero personal gain, or the people blindly following orders for a pay cheque? It's not hard to answer.
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| W12 03 Feb 22 10.45pm | |
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A true pandemic has commenced
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| Eden Eagle Kent 04 Feb 22 5.30am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
It hardly matters whether Democrats or Republicans run the state. What matters is whether everything is equal. Climate, rural, urban, population density, demographics, etc. As none are, as you can imagine, it's neither easy nor clear. It seems people have though tried to measure things. Some on the economics, some on health. This is the most comprehensive I have found so far, but what the overall conclusion is, isn't so easy:- You might be interested in this, which rates the 10 best, and 10 worst performing states during the pandemic. It's interesting that there are 6 Democratic states to 4 Republican in the best list, and only 1 Democratic to 9 Republican in the worst:- Of course, it's only one survey, but this journal is known for analysing the best, and worst aspects of a variety of things in the USA, using a set of metrics. So they have some experience, and a track record. I think it does matter whether the states were Democrat or Republican bearing in mind that they often adopted such different responses to CV19. So reviewing your link to the Politico site which you have selected some data to share - the question I raised was why not compare California to Florida as you were struggling to get any comparisons, the conclusion from the Politico data is that Florida performed better than California. Throughout this pandemic you have been consistent in your approach to supporting more Government control, the mandating of vaccinations and more lockdowns so it is interesting that based on the link you provided and comparing 2 similar states (based on climate & size) with a very different approach that the overall outcome is better from Florida which had less restrictions and is against compulsory vaccinations etc than the strict lockdown approach of California.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 04 Feb 22 10.13am |
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Originally posted by W12
Who to believe? The minority who are literally losing their careers in order to speak out and have the strength of character to take abuse from the narrative controllers for zero personal gain, or the people blindly following orders for a pay cheque? It's not hard to answer. That's easy to answer. You believe experts and not conspiracy theorists. I feel sorry for those who believe the latter and have lost faith in people who work so hard on our behalf. I don't feel sorry for people who believe they can put their own decision making above the collective needs of society.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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HKOwen  Hong Kong 04 Feb 22 10.24am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
That's easy to answer. You believe experts and not conspiracy theorists. I feel sorry for those who believe the latter and have lost faith in people who work so hard on our behalf. I don't feel sorry for people who believe they can put their own decision making above the collective needs of society. Experts like Neil Ferguson? If you deny he is an expert then you will have even less credibility on this forum than you currently have, which is not much.
Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 04 Feb 22 10.28am |
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Originally posted by Eden Eagle
I think it does matter whether the states were Democrat or Republican bearing in mind that they often adopted such different responses to CV19. So reviewing your link to the Politico site which you have selected some data to share - the question I raised was why not compare California to Florida as you were struggling to get any comparisons, the conclusion from the Politico data is that Florida performed better than California. Throughout this pandemic you have been consistent in your approach to supporting more Government control, the mandating of vaccinations and more lockdowns so it is interesting that based on the link you provided and comparing 2 similar states (based on climate & size) with a very different approach that the overall outcome is better from Florida which had less restrictions and is against compulsory vaccinations etc than the strict lockdown approach of California. Outcomes are what matter, not political dogma. You cherry-picked two states. I provided a link to the bigger picture. Looking at only pieces of a puzzle will never enable the whole to be seen. The truth though isn't that Florida outperformed California! It did economically but did not when measured on health. So it depends on what you believe to be most important. Things seem to be getting worse in Florida. This is from a local site. Take a look and do read the comments too, as they are apposite:-
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Stirlingsays 04 Feb 22 10.30am |
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Politico is a leftist very pro Democrat site, not by any means an independent nor objective site.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 04 Feb 22 10.34am |
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Originally posted by HKOwen
Experts like Neil Ferguson? If you deny he is an expert then you will have even less credibility on this forum than you currently have, which is not much. He is an expert. Making a personal mistake doesn't mean your skills cannot be used. Whether I have any "credibility" with the right wing, anti-lockdown bunch of regressives who regularly post their selfishness here, is of no concern at all. I would be ashamed to be well regarded by such people.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Stirlingsays 04 Feb 22 10.35am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Outcomes are what matter, not political dogma. You cherry-picked two states. I provided a link to the bigger picture. Looking at only pieces of a puzzle will never enable the whole to be seen. The truth though isn't that Florida outperformed California! It did economically but did not when measured on health. So it depends on what you believe to be most important. Things seem to be getting worse in Florida. This is from a local site. Take a look and do read the comments too, as they are apposite:- Of course it's going to spread fast in Florida and other high population, high density states, covid has transformed into its weakest and most transmissible variant. Any state that is now trying to impose restrictions is crazy as it's like trying to stop the common cold and is just hurting its economy for no purpose. Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Feb 2022 10.35am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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