Realistically we know, not think, that the elderly and vulnerable being vaccinated is a hugely positive decision healthwise. Any idea that we should wait or we aren't sure, endangers lives and in a round about way dissuades people from making extremely sensible health choices.

My point regarding aspirin and the like was that people don't think twice about the long known risks associated (as you didn't in taking it for years on end until you developed health problems) and yet when it comes to this vaccine, the same people often portray a broad negative view, while routinely talking down every plus that can readily be observed as something up for debate.

Your approach seems to be primarily about validating your own personal decision, which based on your stated health issues was a political, and health negligent choice. A more considered and less scatter gun approach would be to look at rare vaccine side effects in young males comparison to infection and less personal upside from vaccination. That would at least be useful. That in itself though, would of course also involve having to acknowledge and appreciate the dramatic long term health implications of initial natural infection in adults when compared to vaccination - something you strangely seem to have very little interest or enthusiasm in acknowledging or appreciating.

As I have already pointed out it is less what he said, and much more what he didn't say which matters. The report states that "The findings in this report are subject to at least seven limitations." I won't list them all. Anyone interested can look them from the links I provided a few posts back. The most important though, to my mind is this :-

"This analysis integrated laboratory testing, hospitalization surveillance, and immunization registry data in two large states during May–November 2021, before widespread circulation of the SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant and before most persons had received additional or booster COVID-19 vaccine doses to protect against waning immunity".

So before Omicron and before many second doses or boosters. Boosters which have been so important in the last couple of months.

So trying to draw definitive answers, as he tries to, from an out of date data set, without mentioning these limitations or the contrary conclusions gives cause for questions. As a minimum.

From watching some of his videos Campbell doesn't appear interested in ideological positions but rather is data driven on his conclusions.

The fact that you want him to say things other than that is for you. However it's not as though he's there as some form of political or ideological front. I only used him as he reinforced the natural immunity realities, which had been attacked within the media.

There is no evidence within the data set to support waning immunity over the time periods. However, no one is making the claim that natural immunity from prior infections or vaccinations lasts forever. I've already covered this area to the effect that all immunity fades due to evolving variants and the strength of an individual's immunity, which will naturally differ....that's true of flu or any other virus....for example, people on average catch the flu twice a decade precisely because it evolves.

Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Jan 2022 7.56pm)

Very good post BlueJay, spot on.

Was I giving you health advice? No I wasn't.

You are free to disagree with me both politically and on anything I've said on health matters but I'm not getting much of that am I.

You appear more interested in personal attacks on me than in focusing on that.

I honestly didn't know you disliked me that much. I mean I really didn't.

I'm going to stop posting at you because I don't want this kind of interaction while the level of dislike is lopsided. While I have my disagreements with you I just don't feel this vitriol that you have.

I have no more certainty about what interests Campbell than anyone else. I can though speculate. He seems to reach conclusions not just on the data. It feels to me as though he has a conclusion searching for reasons to support it. As others do with his video.

There is no evidence within the data to support anything about the future. It's historical. It deals with a variant which has all but disappeared in an environment which no longer exists.

It may be the case that we are now at the beginning of the end of this pandemic and that the relative benign impact of Omicron is a preview. However, we would be very foolish to make our plans on hope, or assumption. We have the vaccines available. We know they work. They need to be used. By everyone who can.

That though isn't actually the main reason why we shouldn't pay any heed to the idea that natural immunity alone ought to be accepted as in any way an alternative to vaccination.

The Covid 19 pandemic caught us on the hop, but it was predicted. We will be much better prepared for the next one, able to develop vaccines quickly and know better how to avoid the early spread until we can get them out. We cannot afford frequent economic hits of this type.

So when will the next one be? If another 100 years why worry? However, in today's world that seems extremely improbable. International travel, population growth and even climate change make it much more likely that pandemics will become a regular occurrence. I hope I am wrong but without certainty we should plan that I am right.

For this reason I believe that to give any encouragement to those who oppose vaccination, for whatever reason, is completely the wrong message. When the next pandemic strikes we need to have everybody on board. We need everyone to know what is expected of them, no exceptions, so we can beat the next one quickly.

Allowing the holdouts to escape their responsibilities to us now, would just make things more difficult the next time.