This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.
The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
Register | Edit Profile | Subscriptions | Forum Rules | Log In
 steeleye20  Croydon 04 Dec 18 3.10pm |
  |
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Mapletree
That is probably correct. They have no special desire to be apart from the process. They just can't be bothered to turn out and lack a proper sense of duty. I guess that is why the Aussies decided to compel people to get off the sofa. It's like the difference between the First and Second World War, conscription. Mind you, those authoritarian extremist Aussies eh. It hardly seems to work for Australia, they have had 5 different prime ministers in as many years.
|
|
 Alert a moderator to this post |
 |
Pussay Patrol  04 Dec 18 3.15pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Cucking Funt
What is? What I mean is when we debate the EU Leavers bang on about our sovereignty and our system and political elite should have full control then start to say how crap it is and what complete fukwits we're lumbered with
Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Badger11 Beckenham 04 Dec 18 3.17pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Pussay Patrol
What I mean is when we debate the EU Leavers bang on about our sovereignty and our system and political elite should have full control then start to say how crap it is and what complete fukwits we're lumbered with One step at a time. Once we are free of the EU I would like to address the issues around parliamentary democracy .
One more point |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Stirlingsays 04 Dec 18 3.58pm |
 |
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Mapletree
That is probably correct. They have no special desire to be apart from the process. They just can't be bothered to turn out and lack a proper sense of duty. I guess that is why the Aussies decided to compel people to get off the sofa. It's like the difference between the First and Second World War, conscription. Mind you, those authoritarian extremist Aussies eh. Most Australians are descendants of European settlers......Authoritarianism is very European...In fact it's just human....free societies contain both libertarians and authoritarians..... it's a never ending battle between the two for hegemony.....Authoritarians may play it nicer nowadays but behind the smile still comes the threat of an arm behind the back. Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Dec 2018 4.01pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Pussay Patrol 04 Dec 18 4.07pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Pussay Patrol
What I mean is when we debate the EU Leavers bang on about our sovereignty and our system and political elite should have full control then start to say how crap it is and what complete fukwits we're lumbered with That's missing the point, people keep saying the EU is undemocratic (it isn't) when our system isn't very democratic either.
Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Stirlingsays 04 Dec 18 4.21pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Pussay Patrol
That's missing the point, people keep saying the EU is undemocratic (it isn't) when our system isn't very democratic either. That's hardly in the same ballpark. At least you can vote out the government.....You can't vote out the commission.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
 Hrolf The Ganger 04 Dec 18 4.21pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Pussay Patrol
That's missing the point, people keep saying the EU is undemocratic (it isn't) when our system isn't very democratic either. So because our system is not perfect we should surrender it in favour of an even less perfect one? Good logic.
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| steeleye20 Croydon 04 Dec 18 4.31pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Stirlingsays
That's hardly in the same ballpark. At least you can vote out the government.....You can't vote out the commission. The EU commission can be voted out by a vote of no confidence in the EU parliament (elected). Neither is the UK particularly democratic and it is anybody's guess that it could run anything at all even if it was !!!!!!!!!!!!
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Pussay Patrol 04 Dec 18 4.39pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Here's some food for thought about how EU works: "Isn’t Britain always being outvoted? One of the biggest gripes of Eurosceptics is the extension of qualified-majority voting, which allows the British government to be outvoted. A swathe of EU policies are now decided by these weighted-majority votes, such as environment, agriculture and transport. More sensitive policies, including tax, defence and foreign policy, have to be agreed by unanimity. Under QMV, a law passes if it is backed by 16 out of 28 countries that make up at least 65% of the EU population. The UK has 13% of the EU population, so gets a 13% vote share. Research by the London School of Economics found that the UK was on the winning side 87% of the time between 2009-15. So the British government does have to accept some EU decisions it didn’t vote for. One of the most high-profile losses in recent years, was when the chancellor, George Osborne, was outvoted on an EU law to restrict bankers bonuses. In this case, more than three quarters of the British public, including 68% of Conservative voters, supported the EU proposal" So basically of all the EU laws passed that we agreed to was roughly 87%, one of the most high profile EU laws which we didn't vote for was restricting banker bonuses. So our elected minister is voting against this particular bill despite the fact that the British Public did not back him and 68% of his party members supported the EU bill. That's our democracy for you....!! Edited by Pussay Patrol (04 Dec 2018 4.39pm)
Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Stirlingsays 04 Dec 18 4.47pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by steeleye20
The EU commission can be voted out by a vote of no confidence in the EU parliament (elected). Neither is the UK particularly democratic and it is anybody's guess that it could run anything at all even if it was !!!!!!!!!!!! ???? This is like saying the monarchy is democratic because parliament can abolish the rules of succession....and I vote in the representatives......hence the monarchy is democratic. Complete logic fail. I repeat, I cannot vote out the commission......If the commission isn't subject to the people it isn't democratic.......common sense 101. The idea that the gravy train bureaucrats would ever vote out the commission is even more ludicrous than the idea that parliament would abolish the monarchy.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| steeleye20 Croydon 04 Dec 18 5.03pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Government found in contempt of parliament on failure to provide the Brexit legal advice.
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Rudi Hedman Caterham 04 Dec 18 5.21pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Pussay Patrol
Here's some food for thought about how EU works: "Isn’t Britain always being outvoted? One of the biggest gripes of Eurosceptics is the extension of qualified-majority voting, which allows the British government to be outvoted. A swathe of EU policies are now decided by these weighted-majority votes, such as environment, agriculture and transport. More sensitive policies, including tax, defence and foreign policy, have to be agreed by unanimity. Under QMV, a law passes if it is backed by 16 out of 28 countries that make up at least 65% of the EU population. The UK has 13% of the EU population, so gets a 13% vote share. Research by the London School of Economics found that the UK was on the winning side 87% of the time between 2009-15. So the British government does have to accept some EU decisions it didn’t vote for. One of the most high-profile losses in recent years, was when the chancellor, George Osborne, was outvoted on an EU law to restrict bankers bonuses. In this case, more than three quarters of the British public, including 68% of Conservative voters, supported the EU proposal" So basically of all the EU laws passed that we agreed to was roughly 87%, one of the most high profile EU laws which we didn't vote for was restricting banker bonuses. So our elected minister is voting against this particular bill despite the fact that the British Public did not back him and 68% of his party members supported the EU bill. That's our democracy for you....!! Edited by Pussay Patrol (04 Dec 2018 4.39pm) Nobody voted for freedom of movement and all of the downsides to it if you weren’t fortunate enough to come from or live in a nicer area or be in very well paid work. Nobody. If you’re in this situation it make no difference to you. If you live in some parts of the country it still doesn’t make much difference to you, but it will, and unless we have the power to do anything about it, we’ll never be able to, halt or reduce the numbers. Edited by Rudi Hedman (04 Dec 2018 5.21pm)
COYP |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
Login / RegisterNew users
Registration is now on our new message board
Existing users
To login with your existing username you will need to convert your account over to the new message board.
Sponsors
All images and text on this site are copyright © 1999-2024 The Holmesdale Online, unless otherwise stated.
Web Design by Guntrisoft Ltd.