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Stirlingsays 01 Dec 18 9.19am
Originally posted by Mapletree Well said Stirling I believe I may have done so in the past and probably also commented that Slovakian girls are the most attractive I have seen anywhere It just seems bizarre that someone who appears to love another EU country would feel so strongly that it should be made a huge amount harder for others to have the same experience We know and understand our European neighbours at a totally different level know than when I was young. IMO it is our natural role to act as referee between them and their bridgehead with the USA. Being anti the EU isn't being anti European. One country out of 28 isn't a referee Maple. That mindset is from a EU from decades ago and it's not a realistic depiction of how the block works today. The policies coming out of the EU now are so far from what the main bulk of the UK population want that staying in it works against their long terms aims. Look at the EU's attitude to migration and a European army and calls for closer union both politically and fiscally. Edited by Stirlingsays (01 Dec 2018 9.21am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

01 Dec 18 9.19am

Originally posted by Mapletree

Well said Stirling

I believe I may have done so in the past and probably also commented that Slovakian girls are the most attractive I have seen anywhere

It just seems bizarre that someone who appears to love another EU country would feel so strongly that it should be made a huge amount harder for others to have the same experience

We know and understand our European neighbours at a totally different level know than when I was young. IMO it is our natural role to act as referee between them and their bridgehead with the USA.

Being anti the EU isn't being anti European.

One country out of 28 isn't a referee Maple. That mindset is from a EU from decades ago and it's not a realistic depiction of how the block works today.

The policies coming out of the EU now are so far from what the main bulk of the UK population want that staying in it works against their long terms aims.

Look at the EU's attitude to migration and a European army and calls for closer union both politically and fiscally.

Edited by Stirlingsays (01 Dec 2018 9.21am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Mapletree Croydon 01 Dec 18 9.43am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Being anti the EU isn't being anti European. One country out of 28 isn't a referee Maple. That mindset is from a EU from decades ago and it's not a realistic depiction of how the block works today. The policies coming out of the EU now are so far from what the main bulk of the UK population want that staying in it works against their long terms aims. Look at the EU's attitude to migration and a European army and calls for closer union both politically and fiscally. Edited by Stirlingsays (01 Dec 2018 9.21am) You are talking about the political structures I am talking about day to day and rights to work with free movement Never put a German, a Dutch person and a French person in a business meeting without a Brit. Canadians will do at a pinch.
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Mapletree

Croydon 01 Dec 18 9.43am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Being anti the EU isn't being anti European.

One country out of 28 isn't a referee Maple. That mindset is from a EU from decades ago and it's not a realistic depiction of how the block works today.

The policies coming out of the EU now are so far from what the main bulk of the UK population want that staying in it works against their long terms aims.

Look at the EU's attitude to migration and a European army and calls for closer union both politically and fiscally.

Edited by Stirlingsays (01 Dec 2018 9.21am)

You are talking about the political structures

I am talking about day to day and rights to work with free movement

Never put a German, a Dutch person and a French person in a business meeting without a Brit. Canadians will do at a pinch.

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steeleye20 Croydon 01 Dec 18 9.50am
I am no supporter of referendums a disease in my view. However if you must have one then it should be a vote binding on the government, and not advisory as in 2016. Really don't see the problem.
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steeleye20

Croydon 01 Dec 18 9.50am

I am no supporter of referendums a disease in my view.

However if you must have one then it should be a vote binding on the government, and not advisory as in 2016.

Really don't see the problem.

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Stirlingsays 01 Dec 18 10.30am
Originally posted by Mapletree You are talking about the political structures I am talking about day to day and rights to work with free movement Never put a German, a Dutch person and a French person in a business meeting without a Brit. Canadians will do at a pinch. Nothing wrong with controlled immigration from limited northern European sources.....if they are actually those nationalities and not others with a passport. Something that both Mekel and Macron have both embraced....much to their respective nation's displeasure. Freedom of movement isn't controlled so.....no thanks. I'm also for protecting the working class of a country who don't tend to emigrate but have strong regional attachments, not just creating wonderful lives for the middle and rootless classes. Edited by Stirlingsays (01 Dec 2018 10.42am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

01 Dec 18 10.30am

Originally posted by Mapletree

You are talking about the political structures

I am talking about day to day and rights to work with free movement

Never put a German, a Dutch person and a French person in a business meeting without a Brit. Canadians will do at a pinch.

Nothing wrong with controlled immigration from limited northern European sources.....if they are actually those nationalities and not others with a passport. Something that both Mekel and Macron have both embraced....much to their respective nation's displeasure.

Freedom of movement isn't controlled so.....no thanks. I'm also for protecting the working class of a country who don't tend to emigrate but have strong regional attachments, not just creating wonderful lives for the middle and rootless classes.

Edited by Stirlingsays (01 Dec 2018 10.42am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Mapletree Croydon 01 Dec 18 11.21am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Nothing wrong with controlled immigration from limited northern European sources.....if they are actually those nationalities and not others with a passport. Something that both Mekel and Macron have both embraced....much to their respective nation's displeasure. Freedom of movement isn't controlled so.....no thanks. I'm also for protecting the working class of a country who don't tend to emigrate but have strong regional attachments, not just creating wonderful lives for the middle and rootless classes. Edited by Stirlingsays (01 Dec 2018 10.42am) Whoosh It is the Brits not able to work (easily at least) in the EU that concerns me - literally. In the queue for work we shall be behind places like Bulgaria for any EU based opportunities. Once they have had their chance to apply we will then be in competition with China, India, the USA, Russia, LatAm, Africa etc. And in addition, I think the Brits add more to Europe than any other nation.
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Mapletree

Croydon 01 Dec 18 11.21am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Edited by Stirlingsays (01 Dec 2018 10.42am)

Whoosh

It is the Brits not able to work (easily at least) in the EU that concerns me - literally. In the queue for work we shall be behind places like Bulgaria for any EU based opportunities. Once they have had their chance to apply we will then be in competition with China, India, the USA, Russia, LatAm, Africa etc.

And in addition, I think the Brits add more to Europe than any other nation.

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W12 01 Dec 18 11.52am
[Link] Tell me how this makes sense. On one hand he’s saying how “brutal” the EU are behaving and on the other he’s calling for another referendum so we can stay in it?
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W12 01 Dec 18 11.52am

[Link]

Tell me how this makes sense. On one hand he’s saying how “brutal” the EU are behaving and on the other he’s calling for another referendum so we can stay in it?

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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 01 Dec 18 11.53am
Originally posted by Mapletree Because the nature of the deal is now clarified. It was at best guesswork in the previous vote and in reality smoke and mirrors Why does parliament need a vote for that matter Edited by Mapletree (01 Dec 2018 9.02am) So what was the point of the first one? From what you're saying, now that the nature of the deal has been clarified (which it hasn't, really), any referendum now must be a choice between implementing May's deal or reverting to the result of the 2016 poll. Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
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Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 01 Dec 18 11.53am

Originally posted by Mapletree

Because the nature of the deal is now clarified. It was at best guesswork in the previous vote and in reality smoke and mirrors

Why does parliament need a vote for that matter

Edited by Mapletree (01 Dec 2018 9.02am)

So what was the point of the first one? From what you're saying, now that the nature of the deal has been clarified (which it hasn't, really), any referendum now must be a choice between implementing May's deal or reverting to the result of the 2016 poll.

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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Stirlingsays 01 Dec 18 12.03pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Whoosh It is the Brits not able to work (easily at least) in the EU that concerns me - literally. In the queue for work we shall be behind places like Bulgaria for any EU based opportunities. Once they have had their chance to apply we will then be in competition with China, India, the USA, Russia, LatAm, Africa etc. And in addition, I think the Brits add more to Europe than any other nation. Whoosh? Indeed....we live in two different worlds. Regardless ,didn't you read my second paragraph. You are talking about a very small demographic compared to most of the UK's workforce. Because you have been apart of that small mainly middle class demographic you are prepared to ignore the downsides because you don't have to live with them....the benefits mainly come to those with means. You simply ignore what you don't wish to consider. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

01 Dec 18 12.03pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Whoosh

And in addition, I think the Brits add more to Europe than any other nation.

Whoosh? Indeed....we live in two different worlds.

Regardless ,didn't you read my second paragraph.

You are talking about a very small demographic compared to most of the UK's workforce.

Because you have been apart of that small mainly middle class demographic you are prepared to ignore the downsides because you don't have to live with them....the benefits mainly come to those with means.

You simply ignore what you don't wish to consider.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Mapletree Croydon 01 Dec 18 1.13pm
Originally posted by Cucking Funt So what was the point of the first one? From what you're saying, now that the nature of the deal has been clarified (which it hasn't, really), any referendum now must be a choice between implementing May's deal or reverting to the result of the 2016 poll. What do you mean by reverting to the result of the poll First, the 2016 poll was non-binding, extremely explicitly. Second, if you consider it was a guide to the intentions of the British Public then we have now clarified the deal available and it makes sense to check that the public agrees to go ahead In exactly the same way as within Parliament I also don't like plebiscites as people in general don't have the time to be truly fully informed and also it is one vote per person. So if someone loses hugely as a result of one outcome and someone else gains marginally there is no weighting. But if you are going to have a plebiscite you had better finish the process. How many people knew exactly what they wanted and of those how many are getting something acceptably close to their desire.
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Mapletree

Croydon 01 Dec 18 1.13pm

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

What do you mean by reverting to the result of the poll

First, the 2016 poll was non-binding, extremely explicitly.

Second, if you consider it was a guide to the intentions of the British Public then we have now clarified the deal available and it makes sense to check that the public agrees to go ahead

In exactly the same way as within Parliament

I also don't like plebiscites as people in general don't have the time to be truly fully informed and also it is one vote per person. So if someone loses hugely as a result of one outcome and someone else gains marginally there is no weighting.

But if you are going to have a plebiscite you had better finish the process. How many people knew exactly what they wanted and of those how many are getting something acceptably close to their desire.

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Mapletree Croydon 01 Dec 18 1.22pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays You are talking about a very small demographic compared to most of the UK's workforce. Last count 1.3m in the EU and rising quickly. It has been estimated by the World Bank that between 4.5 million and 5.5 million Britons live abroad, that's around 7-8% of the UK population and would be about 15% of the working population. To put that in context, only about 0.8% of Americans, 3% of Spanish and 2.1% of Australians are expats. This is what we do. We are world workers Just because some people don't participate that is no reason for them to put the brakes on the others and to cripple our coming generations in the global workforce. Being a part of the EU bloc doesn't just help us work in the EU you know. It gives power.
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Mapletree

Croydon 01 Dec 18 1.22pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

You are talking about a very small demographic compared to most of the UK's workforce.

Last count 1.3m in the EU and rising quickly.

It has been estimated by the World Bank that between 4.5 million and 5.5 million Britons live abroad, that's around 7-8% of the UK population and would be about 15% of the working population. To put that in context, only about 0.8% of Americans, 3% of Spanish and 2.1% of Australians are expats.

This is what we do. We are world workers

Just because some people don't participate that is no reason for them to put the brakes on the others and to cripple our coming generations in the global workforce.

Being a part of the EU bloc doesn't just help us work in the EU you know. It gives power.

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Stirlingsays 01 Dec 18 1.31pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Last count 1.3m in the EU and rising quickly. It has been estimated by the World Bank that between 4.5 million and 5.5 million Britons live abroad, that's around 7-8% of the UK population and would be about 15% of the working population. To put that in context, only about 0.8% of Americans, 3% of Spanish and 2.1% of Australians are expats. This is what we do. We are world workers Just because some people don't participate that is no reason for them to put the brakes on the others and to cripple our coming generations in the global workforce. Being a part of the EU bloc doesn't just help us work in the EU you know. It gives power. Thanks for confirming what I knew already.....a tiny demographic who wants to ignore the wishes of the majority and change their working environment......Errr...no thanks......Only controlled immigration from the EU please. As for you completely ignoring the downsides of freedom of movement for your tiny demographic benefiting.....unfortunately that says it all Maple and it shows just how our two philosophies are at loggerheads. Your last line is a kind of example of how we end up speaking past each other. Edited by Stirlingsays (01 Dec 2018 1.34pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

01 Dec 18 1.31pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Last count 1.3m in the EU and rising quickly.

This is what we do. We are world workers

Just because some people don't participate that is no reason for them to put the brakes on the others and to cripple our coming generations in the global workforce.

Being a part of the EU bloc doesn't just help us work in the EU you know. It gives power.

Thanks for confirming what I knew already.....a tiny demographic who wants to ignore the wishes of the majority and change their working environment......Errr...no thanks......Only controlled immigration from the EU please.

As for you completely ignoring the downsides of freedom of movement for your tiny demographic benefiting.....unfortunately that says it all Maple and it shows just how our two philosophies are at loggerheads.

Your last line is a kind of example of how we end up speaking past each other.

Edited by Stirlingsays (01 Dec 2018 1.34pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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silvertop Portishead 01 Dec 18 1.38pm
Originally posted by Badger11 Good post Steve there is a lot I agree with. One thing the Remainers do not understand is that they held all the cards. This was not an unbiased referendum the government was pro EU as was the whole establishment, unions, international bodies etc. Yet with all that firepower they failed to convince enough people of the merits of staying. Remainers blame us Leavers rather than asking the obvious question why did we fail to persuade the electorate? Maybe some unions backed remain at leadership level but their members did not. A primary reason we are leaving is the strong leave vote from the left. The one factor that swung it for Brexit was the chance coincidence of the referendum being called at the same time as the migration crisis. Forage standing in front of a mass of Syrian refugees. Talk about project fear.
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silvertop

Portishead 01 Dec 18 1.38pm

Originally posted by Badger11

Good post Steve there is a lot I agree with.

One thing the Remainers do not understand is that they held all the cards. This was not an unbiased referendum the government was pro EU as was the whole establishment, unions, international bodies etc. Yet with all that firepower they failed to convince enough people of the merits of staying. Remainers blame us Leavers rather than asking the obvious question why did we fail to persuade the electorate?

Maybe some unions backed remain at leadership level but their members did not. A primary reason we are leaving is the strong leave vote from the left.

The one factor that swung it for Brexit was the chance coincidence of the referendum being called at the same time as the migration crisis. Forage standing in front of a mass of Syrian refugees. Talk about project fear.

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