If the military strength was reversed then we would see an ACTUAL genocide as every Jew would be purposefully massacred.

I am no fan of Israels actions, but that point seems to escape many.

My username has nothing to do with my religious beliefs

I think you are right, but if the Zionists had not had the backing of the US and their own financial resources, Israel would not exist in terms of its modern incarnation. The neighbouring/displaced Arab nations demonstrated, from Day 1, that they opposed the 'land grab' even though they had no chance of winning the battle.

I think there is a reasonable expectation that, if you reclaim land and displace people after 1000+ years, and impose your right to do it through military strength, then the least you can do is show some respect to those you have displaced and some humility in your diplomacy.

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand!

My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.

(Member of the School of Optimism 1969-2016 inclusive)

Agreed. Though worth bearing in mind the establishment of Israel had both US and Soviet support at the time.

One not so mentioned factor (and not in any way lessening criticism of Israeli treatment of Palestinians, and the Nakba) is that about 1 million Jews in Arab countries basically had to relocate out of those countries due to the very hostile climate against them (admittedly also encouraged to leave by the Israelis and come to Israel)which cannot simply be attributed to zionism. Their descendants now form a very large part of the Israeli population and (massively generalising) are amongst the more extreme, fermented by their own bitter past experiences (it was the fusion between their vote and the formerly minority extremist Likud Party that led to the sea change in Israeli politics in 1977 reflected ever since by a swing to the right).

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Edited by legaleagle (08 Aug 2014 10.50pm)

This is an interesting development. To quote Naomi Wolf "Am I alone in thinking that these demands for a ceasefire are not crazy -- in fact are surprisingly (given that Hamas is defined as a terrorist group) -- sensible in terms of building a peaceful civil society? They are not 'wipe Israel off the face of the map" -- they are things like -- a port under UN supervision..."

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Report: Hamas offers Israel 10 conditions for a 10 year truce

Hamas is offering Israel a 10-year truce if it accepts 10 conditions. The Jerusalem Post reports, based on an Israeli Channel 2 newscast, that Azmi Bishara announced the proposal on Al Jazeera television today. Bishara, a former Israeli Knesset member, fled Israel in 2007 after being accused of spying for Hezbollah. He is currently living in Qatar where he is a high level government advisor.

According to Ma’ariv (Hebrew) these are the conditions:

Withdrawal of Israeli tanks from the Gaza border.

Freeing all the prisoners that were arrested after the killing of the three youths.

Lifting the siege and opening the border crossings to commerce and people.

Establishing an international seaport and airport which would be under U.N. supervision.

Increasing the permitted fishing zone to 10 kilometers.

Internationalizing the Rafah Crossing and placing it under the supervision of the U.N. and some Arab nations.

International forces on the borders.

Easing conditions for permits to pray at the Al Aqsa Mosque.

Prohibition on Israeli interference in the reconciliation agreement.

Reestablishing an industrial zone and improvements in further economic development in the Gaza Strip.

Supporting Crystal Palace since 19.45 on 29th August 1972 (approximately)!

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Edited by legaleagle (09 Aug 2014 1.35am)

I think if Hamas could secure a truce and maintain it for ten years along those grounds, it could tip the balance towards a longer lasting peaceful solution, largely on the basis of an economic upswing creating prosperity.

In order to achieve a peaceful future, Hamas needs to be able to show something significant in terms of a political victory it can sell that marginalises the influence of hardliners and the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades.

The problem though would always be getting the other factions that are not Hamas to go along with it (such as Palestinian Islamic Jyhad). If they delivered on the ten years truce, then they'd be in a position by the end of that time where they'd either be in a stronger position militarily* or equally in a position where they could arguably sell the idea of a political resolution easier.

* Militarily they'd never be in a position where they could threaten Israel seriously.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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