Bad recruitment

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Bad recruitment

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 28 Mar 23 12.01pm
Originally posted by MrRobbo I'm not sure whey you keep bringing this back to remit. Nobody knows hies remit, but we know it involves transfers as his name is always mentioned. But regardless, the macro point is that Parish employed Dougie, into arguably the most important back office role, with zero experience. From the outside, I just find that a bit insane The DOF role varies from club to club.Steve Parish appointed Dougie Freedman who was an experienced manager with nearly 250 games to his name on the managerial throne.
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 28 Mar 23 12.01pm

Originally posted by MrRobbo

I'm not sure whey you keep bringing this back to remit. Nobody knows hies remit, but we know it involves transfers as his name is always mentioned.

But regardless, the macro point is that Parish employed Dougie, into arguably the most important back office role, with zero experience.

From the outside, I just find that a bit insane

The DOF role varies from club to club.Steve Parish appointed Dougie Freedman who was an experienced manager with nearly 250 games to his name on the managerial throne.

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PatrickA London 28 Mar 23 12.10pm
His brief as DOF may well be wider than scouting, but nonetheless it is beyond dispute that Freedman has overall control of scouting at the club. It is clear from Hodgson’s and Vieira’s comments in recent seasons when asked about team strengthening that both Freedman and Parish are the key figures in the decisions on who comes in and goes out. If they are fairly praised for getting it right with the likes of Guehi and Anderson, it’s surely equally fair to be able to question their decisions on the squad weaknesses which are have been all too evident to the fanbase this season. To merely say that Freedman has a wider remit or that Parish has been at the helm for 10 years does not give them a free pass to my mind and could be seen as yet more excuses. On the subject of finance it would clearly be unreasonable to expect us to compete financially with the top clubs ,but there is still value to be had as clubs smaller than us have demonstrated in their acquisition policies. For what it’s worth I think Parish and Freedman are both doing good jobs, but there is clearly room for improvement and a more professional approach. Currently we’re in a relegation struggle, have temporarily gone back to a manager who was deemed not the right choice when we did not extend his contract two seasons ago, and have another half dozen senior players out of contract in the summer including our star player. As I say, clearly room for improvement. Originally posted by Willo Steve Parish has been at the helm whilst we have enjoyed 10 seasons in the PL. Criticism as been laid at the door of our DOF but I would suggest that his 'Terms of Reference' are not widely known.His remit extends beyond the area of recruitment, and of course the club's transfer activity is constrained within financial parameters.
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PatrickA

London 28 Mar 23 12.10pm

His brief as DOF may well be wider than scouting, but nonetheless it is beyond dispute that Freedman has overall control of scouting at the club.
It is clear from Hodgson’s and Vieira’s comments in recent seasons when asked about team strengthening that both Freedman and Parish are the key figures in the decisions on who comes in and goes out.
If they are fairly praised for getting it right with the likes of Guehi and Anderson, it’s surely equally fair to be able to question their decisions on the squad weaknesses which are have been all too evident to the fanbase this season.
To merely say that Freedman has a wider remit or that Parish has been at the helm for 10 years does not give them a free pass to my mind and could be seen as yet more excuses.
On the subject of finance it would clearly be unreasonable to expect us to compete financially with the top clubs ,but there is still value to be had as clubs smaller than us have demonstrated in their acquisition policies.

For what it’s worth I think Parish and Freedman are both doing good jobs, but there is clearly room for improvement and a more professional approach.
Currently we’re in a relegation struggle, have temporarily gone back to a manager who was deemed not the right choice when we did not extend his contract two seasons ago, and have another half dozen senior players out of contract in the summer including our star player.

As I say, clearly room for improvement.

Originally posted by Willo

Steve Parish has been at the helm whilst we have enjoyed 10 seasons in the PL.

Criticism as been laid at the door of our DOF but I would suggest that his 'Terms of Reference' are not widely known.His remit extends beyond the area of recruitment, and of course the club's transfer activity is constrained within financial parameters.

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MrRobbo Chaldon 28 Mar 23 12.20pm
Originally posted by Willo The DOF role varies from club to club.Steve Parish appointed Dougie Freedman who was an experienced manager with nearly 250 games to his name on the managerial throne. Oh jeez, I know it varies from club to club. I'm not question Dougie's experience as a manager (although it isn't vast). I'm questioning his experience as a DoF. And please don't say The DOF role varies from club to club. I know! Point is, he appointed a friendly face, vs a seasoned pro.
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MrRobbo

Chaldon 28 Mar 23 12.20pm

Originally posted by Willo

The DOF role varies from club to club.Steve Parish appointed Dougie Freedman who was an experienced manager with nearly 250 games to his name on the managerial throne.

Oh jeez, I know it varies from club to club.

I'm not question Dougie's experience as a manager (although it isn't vast). I'm questioning his experience as a DoF. And please don't say The DOF role varies from club to club. I know!

Point is, he appointed a friendly face, vs a seasoned pro.

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Painter Croydon 28 Mar 23 12.32pm
Originally posted by MrRobbo Oh jeez, I know it varies from club to club. I'm not question Dougie's experience as a manager (although it isn't vast). I'm questioning his experience as a DoF. And please don't say The DOF role varies from club to club. I know! Point is, he appointed a friendly face, vs a seasoned pro. How do you get experience to be a DofF, if it’s not from being a player and manager. Whilst Freeman was manager at Palace, he brought a number of players to the club, who were key to getting us promoted.
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Painter

Croydon 28 Mar 23 12.32pm

Originally posted by MrRobbo

Oh jeez, I know it varies from club to club.

I'm not question Dougie's experience as a manager (although it isn't vast). I'm questioning his experience as a DoF. And please don't say The DOF role varies from club to club. I know!

Point is, he appointed a friendly face, vs a seasoned pro.

How do you get experience to be a DofF, if it’s not from being a player and manager. Whilst Freeman was manager at Palace, he brought a number of players to the club, who were key to getting us promoted.

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 28 Mar 23 12.36pm
Originally posted by MrRobbo Oh jeez, I know it varies from club to club. I'm not question Dougie's experience as a manager (although it isn't vast). I'm questioning his experience as a DoF. And please don't say The DOF role varies from club to club. I know! Point is, he appointed a friendly face, vs a seasoned pro. Dougie Freedman's experience as a manager encompasses 3 clubs, 5 years, and nearly 250 games at the helm so he was not some inexperienced novice 'Parachuted' into the DOF role. The DOF role encompasses an array of responsibilities not just recruitment, a great deal of hard work goes on behind the scenes and without being fully 'Au Fait' with Dougie's overall contribution perhaps it is well advised not to heap criticism on him as a DOF. I have made my view patently clear so really do not have anything to add on this matter. Edited by Willo (28 Mar 2023 12.42pm)
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 28 Mar 23 12.36pm

Originally posted by MrRobbo

Oh jeez, I know it varies from club to club.

I'm not question Dougie's experience as a manager (although it isn't vast). I'm questioning his experience as a DoF. And please don't say The DOF role varies from club to club. I know!

Point is, he appointed a friendly face, vs a seasoned pro.

Dougie Freedman's experience as a manager encompasses 3 clubs, 5 years, and nearly 250 games at the helm so he was not some inexperienced novice 'Parachuted' into the DOF role.

The DOF role encompasses an array of responsibilities not just recruitment, a great deal of hard work goes on behind the scenes and without being fully 'Au Fait' with Dougie's overall contribution perhaps it is well advised not to heap criticism on him as a DOF.

I have made my view patently clear so really do not have anything to add on this matter.

Edited by Willo (28 Mar 2023 12.42pm)

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 28 Mar 23 12.40pm
Originally posted by PatrickA His brief as DOF may well be wider than scouting, but nonetheless it is beyond dispute that Freedman has overall control of scouting at the club. It is clear from Hodgson’s and Vieira’s comments in recent seasons when asked about team strengthening that both Freedman and Parish are the key figures in the decisions on who comes in and goes out. If they are fairly praised for getting it right with the likes of Guehi and Anderson, it’s surely equally fair to be able to question their decisions on the squad weaknesses which are have been all too evident to the fanbase this season. To merely say that Freedman has a wider remit or that Parish has been at the helm for 10 years does not give them a free pass to my mind and could be seen as yet more excuses. On the subject of finance it would clearly be unreasonable to expect us to compete financially with the top clubs ,but there is still value to be had as clubs smaller than us have demonstrated in their acquisition policies. For what it’s worth I think Parish and Freedman are both doing good jobs, but there is clearly room for improvement and a more professional approach. Currently we’re in a relegation struggle, have temporarily gone back to a manager who was deemed not the right choice when we did not extend his contract two seasons ago, and have another half dozen senior players out of contract in the summer including our star player. As I say, clearly room for improvement. With respect my comment apropos Steve Parish being at the helm for 10 years (Whilst in the PL) was in response to a comment that he never had much experience of running a top-level club.
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 28 Mar 23 12.40pm

Originally posted by PatrickA

As I say, clearly room for improvement.

With respect my comment apropos Steve Parish being at the helm for 10 years (Whilst in the PL) was in response to a comment that he never had much experience of running a top-level club.

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PatrickA London 28 Mar 23 12.47pm
I’m grateful for your respect, but also want your agreement! Originally posted by Willo With respect my comment apropos Steve Parish being at the helm for 10 years (Whilst in the PL) was in response to a comment that he never had much experience of running a top-level club.
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PatrickA

London 28 Mar 23 12.47pm

I’m grateful for your respect, but also want your agreement!

Originally posted by Willo

With respect my comment apropos Steve Parish being at the helm for 10 years (Whilst in the PL) was in response to a comment that he never had much experience of running a top-level club.

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 28 Mar 23 12.49pm
Originally posted by PatrickA I’m grateful for your respect, but also want your agreement! Thank you for your kind sentiments. I will agree that nobody is above criticism and perfection is not in the human gift.
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 28 Mar 23 12.49pm

Originally posted by PatrickA

I’m grateful for your respect, but also want your agreement!

Thank you for your kind sentiments.
I will agree that nobody is above criticism and perfection is not in the human gift.

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Den1923 28 Mar 23 1.43pm
Originally posted by Willo The DOF role varies from club to club.Steve Parish appointed Dougie Freedman who was an experienced manager with nearly 250 games to his name on the managerial throne. I do not think there is any dispute that role is varied. What is clear is that just because someone has been a manager or players that does not necessarily equate that they will be a good DOF. As I recall DF left us for Bolton circa 2011/12 as he thought his route to the top would be quicker at that club. When that did not work out he returned to CP and it was shortly after that he was made DOF. He clearly had no previous experience in the DOF role and frankly probably has retained the job for so long because he is a yes man to Parish, whose controlling nature, means he, empowers no one except himself. The club has survived 10 years true, but it it has not made much progress as a team when you look at others, who have less experience in the EPL but who have made much more progress as a club. That points the finger clearly at Parish, who through his own inexperience has allowed the current difficulties to emerge. There is no doubt if we are relegated then it is Parish who is responsible. It was him who allowed us to play for the last few seasons without a decent striker or adequate investment in an ageing squad with no succession planning. Parish may have had his moment in 2010 but that is history and it is the future that matters.Frankly we are still in the EPL not because of Parish, but more thanks to Roy who used his experience to keep, an under invested squad in this league with little or no support during his time, that also included selling AWB without replacing him. Sorry if Parish does really care about this football club he should recognise he is not able to walk the talk and get an experienced Professional executive who knows how to run an EPL team and is worthy of his/her salary!
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Den1923

28 Mar 23 1.43pm

Originally posted by Willo

The DOF role varies from club to club.Steve Parish appointed Dougie Freedman who was an experienced manager with nearly 250 games to his name on the managerial throne.

I do not think there is any dispute that role is varied. What is clear is that just because someone has been a manager or players that does not necessarily equate that they will be a good DOF. As I recall DF left us for Bolton circa 2011/12 as he thought his route to the top would be quicker at that club. When that did not work out he returned to CP and it was shortly after that he was made DOF.

He clearly had no previous experience in the DOF role and frankly probably has retained the job for so long because he is a yes man to Parish, whose controlling nature, means he, empowers no one except himself.

The club has survived 10 years true, but it it has not made much progress as a team when you look at others, who have less experience in the EPL but who have made much more progress as a club.

That points the finger clearly at Parish, who through his own inexperience has allowed the current difficulties to emerge. There is no doubt if we are relegated then it is Parish who is responsible. It was him who allowed us to play for the last few seasons without a decent striker or adequate investment in an ageing squad with no succession planning.

Parish may have had his moment in 2010 but that is history and it is the future that matters.Frankly we are still in the EPL not because of Parish, but more thanks to Roy who used his experience to keep, an under invested squad in this league with little or no support during his time, that also included selling AWB without replacing him.

Sorry if Parish does really care about this football club he should recognise he is not able to walk the talk and get an experienced Professional executive who knows how to run an EPL team and is worthy of his/her salary!

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Midlands Eagle 28 Mar 23 2.17pm
Originally posted by Willo Dougie Freedman's experience as a manager encompasses 3 clubs, 5 years, and nearly 250 games at the helm so he was not some inexperienced novice 'Parachuted' into the DOF role. None of his managerial experience was in the top flight and he was sacked from two of his three managerial appointments. His title at Palace is Sporting Director
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Midlands Eagle

28 Mar 23 2.17pm

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Originally posted by Willo

Dougie Freedman's experience as a manager encompasses 3 clubs, 5 years, and nearly 250 games at the helm so he was not some inexperienced novice 'Parachuted' into the DOF role.

None of his managerial experience was in the top flight and he was sacked from two of his three managerial appointments.

His title at Palace is Sporting Director

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 28 Mar 23 2.30pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle None of his managerial experience was in the top flight and he was sacked from two of his three managerial appointments. His title at Palace is Sporting Director You are absolutely correct. A 'Sporting Director' at one club is in the main the equivalent of a 'Director of Football' or 'Technical Director' at another club.
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 28 Mar 23 2.30pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

None of his managerial experience was in the top flight and he was sacked from two of his three managerial appointments.

His title at Palace is Sporting Director

You are absolutely correct.

A 'Sporting Director' at one club is in the main the equivalent of a 'Director of Football' or 'Technical Director' at another club.

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MrRobbo Chaldon 28 Mar 23 3.02pm
Originally posted by Willo Dougie Freedman's experience as a manager encompasses 3 clubs, 5 years, and nearly 250 games at the helm so he was not some inexperienced novice 'Parachuted' into the DOF role. The DOF role encompasses an array of responsibilities not just recruitment, a great deal of hard work goes on behind the scenes and without being fully 'Au Fait' with Dougie's overall contribution perhaps it is well advised not to heap criticism on him as a DOF. I have made my view patently clear so really do not have anything to add on this matter. Edited by Willo (28 Mar 2023 12.42pm) He'd never held a back office football job. Experienced player yes, some 2nd tier management experience yes, experience of running a top tier club no.
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MrRobbo

Chaldon 28 Mar 23 3.02pm

Originally posted by Willo

Dougie Freedman's experience as a manager encompasses 3 clubs, 5 years, and nearly 250 games at the helm so he was not some inexperienced novice 'Parachuted' into the DOF role.

I have made my view patently clear so really do not have anything to add on this matter.

Edited by Willo (28 Mar 2023 12.42pm)

He'd never held a back office football job. Experienced player yes, some 2nd tier management experience yes, experience of running a top tier club no.

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