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Biden- anyone thinks he is doing a good job?
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 Wisbech Eagle  Truro Cornwall 02 Apr 22 8.40am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I don't think anyone with even the slightest recall over history can think of the Russians as the 'good guys' as it were. I think the historical memory of the Soviets in Eastern Europe is wholly justified...not least in Ukraine itself. Invading Ukraine, regardless of perspective can't be seen as a reasonable response. God knows how many innocent people have perished already. I think we had a genuine gold plated opportunity there in the nineties and even early on with Putin up to 2004 but I think it was wasted for various reasons but I've gone on about that previously and I'm not eager for more navel gazing. What's important is how the west tackles the moves from here and our own government seems more up for a fist fight than anything else. The Americans also seem more interested in a 'let's bleed the Russians' in Ukraine strategy all the while the wider world outside of the west shrugs its shoulders and plays both. I think the Ukraine army should be proud of themselves but from what I'm hearing there is going to be a major battle in the Donbas and a lot of soldiers and of course civilians are going to die.....We know that the Russian speakers in those areas want to be Russian anyway so this all seems like a pointless bloodbath for territory that's going anyway. One part of me respects the right to fight and die fighting the invaders while the other part sees....what I think most of us realise what will be the basics of the peace treaty and it just looks like lives are being thrown away in the south east. I think four weeks ago Konstantin Kisin said a lot of things on the topic that are still relevant a month on. Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Apr 2022 1.44am) On what basis do you make this assertion? I think it is an assumption based on Putin's propaganda, but one that isn't actually backed up by facts. Yes, they held a referendum but, as with the similar one held in Crimea, it was not recognised as valid anywhere other than in Russia, asked a heavily loaded question and the people voted under duress. Independent polls taken at the same time indicated only around 18% of the people wanted the region to become Russian. The others wanted to remain part of Ukraine, some with a federated status, others fully integrated. I fear you are swallowing propaganda. Even though you are right to fear what could be coming down the line in the east, I don't believe it has anything to do with the people's wishes there. This is 100% Putin's own agenda.
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The groover  Danbury 02 Apr 22 8.59am |
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russia accounts for 12% of the worlds oil and 24% of gas. That makes up 45% of russia's trade income. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that if the west reduces its reliance on that then the russian economy is screwed. Other countries will be circling like vultures to take up the slack. We are also looking to start using Hydrogen in place of gas. This will accelerate that as well. This at a time when we are trying to reduce our reliance on fossil fuels over all as well. Its just going to push countries into doing that faster. It will also result in oil companies opening up wells that were previously uneconomical. Just as BP are doing in the north sea. If as seems may happen, russia defaults on its loans then the place will implode. Anyone that thinks russia will do well out of this war is living in cuckoo land. Edited by The groover (02 Apr 2022 9.00am) Edited by The groover (02 Apr 2022 9.01am) Edited by The groover (02 Apr 2022 9.02am)
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| Stirlingsays 02 Apr 22 9.47am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
On what basis do you make this assertion? I think it is an assumption based on Putin's propaganda, but one that isn't actually backed up by facts. Yes, they held a referendum but, as with the similar one held in Crimea, it was not recognised as valid anywhere other than in Russia, asked a heavily loaded question and the people voted under duress. Independent polls taken at the same time indicated only around 18% of the people wanted the region to become Russian. The others wanted to remain part of Ukraine, some with a federated status, others fully integrated. I fear you are swallowing propaganda. Even though you are right to fear what could be coming down the line in the east, I don't believe it has anything to do with the people's wishes there. This is 100% Putin's own agenda. While I didn't agree with the coup that happened in Ukraine I also didn't agree with Russia walking into the Crimea and just annexing it either. However, I've looked for and didn't find your '18% of the people wanted the region to become Russian' poll so if you link me to that it would be interesting. What I did find was the following: Polling in 2008 by the Ukrainian Centre for Economic and Political Studies, found that 63.8% of Crimeans (76% of ethnic Russians, 55% of ethnic Ukrainians, and 14% of ethnic Crimean Tatars, respectively) would like Crimea to secede from Ukraine and join Russia. On March 12 – 14, 2014, Germany's largest pollster, the GfK Group, conducted a survey with 600 respondents and found that 70.6% of Crimeans intended to vote for joining Russia. Gallup conducted an immediate post-referendum survey of Ukraine and Crimea and published their results in April 2014. Gallup reported that, among the population of Crimea, 93.6% of ethnic Russians and 68.4% of ethnic Ukrainians believed the referendum result accurately represents the will of the Crimean people. Only 1.7% of ethnic Russians and 14.5% of ethnic Ukrainians living in Crimea thought that the referendum results didn't accurately reflect the views of the Crimean people.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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 georgenorman 02 Apr 22 9.54am |
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It was Hitler's favourite excuse for annexations too - they are German speaking and want to be part of Germany.
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| Stirlingsays 02 Apr 22 9.57am |
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Originally posted by The groover
russia accounts for 12% of the worlds oil and 24% of gas. That makes up 45% of russia's trade income. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that if the west reduces its reliance on that then the russian economy is screwed. Other countries will be circling like vultures to take up the slack. We are also looking to start using Hydrogen in place of gas. This will accelerate that as well. This at a time when we are trying to reduce our reliance on fossil fuels over all as well. Its just going to push countries into doing that faster. It will also result in oil companies opening up wells that were previously uneconomical. Just as BP are doing in the north sea. If as seems may happen, russia defaults on its loans then the place will implode. Anyone that thinks russia will do well out of this war is living in cuckoo land. I honestly don't think you have been following what's happening. Russia's economy, like the west's is suffering, however it's being re-routed. They are already making deals around the world, with India for example, for their resources....Also, their importance in farming resources are significant. I'm hoping that there are easy ways around that. I think your view that green energy is going to take up the slack is about as realistic as Johnson's. The scale of what you are talking about is enormous. A cold war is a disaster both militarily and economically. The living standards of everyone...but especially the poor and vulnerable are those who suffer over bad long term decisions.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 02 Apr 22 10.01am |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
It was Hitler's favourite excuse for annexations too - they are German speaking and want to be part of Germany. It's no different to what's happened around the world for thousands of years. England literally use to be split up into separate kingdoms. Besides no one is actually supporting what Putin did anyway.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 02 Apr 22 10.35am |
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I'm no expert on these matters but from what I hear 83 percent of the world's energy relies upon oil and gas. From that I have no problem with green energy being expanded but I do have a problem with it being relied upon. Surely we need to be fracking.....We need to be building nuclear at affordable prices. Why are our energy needs even something that's an issue? This is a fundamental of civilisational competence.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 02 Apr 22 10.38am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
While I didn't agree with the coup that happened in Ukraine I also didn't agree with Russia walking into the Crimea and just annexing it either. However, I've looked for and didn't find your '18% of the people wanted the region to become Russian' poll so if you link me to that it would be interesting. What I did find was the following: Polling in 2008 by the Ukrainian Centre for Economic and Political Studies, found that 63.8% of Crimeans (76% of ethnic Russians, 55% of ethnic Ukrainians, and 14% of ethnic Crimean Tatars, respectively) would like Crimea to secede from Ukraine and join Russia. On March 12 – 14, 2014, Germany's largest pollster, the GfK Group, conducted a survey with 600 respondents and found that 70.6% of Crimeans intended to vote for joining Russia. Gallup conducted an immediate post-referendum survey of Ukraine and Crimea and published their results in April 2014. Gallup reported that, among the population of Crimea, 93.6% of ethnic Russians and 68.4% of ethnic Ukrainians believed the referendum result accurately represents the will of the Crimean people. Only 1.7% of ethnic Russians and 14.5% of ethnic Ukrainians living in Crimea thought that the referendum results didn't accurately reflect the views of the Crimean people. This is the Pew research poll:- Unsurprisingly, it's complicated and this gives some interesting background:-
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 02 Apr 22 10.46am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I'm no expert on these matters but from what I hear 83 percent of the world's energy relies upon oil and gas. From that I have no problem with green energy being expanded but I do have a problem with it being relied upon. Surely we need to be fracking.....We need to be building nuclear at affordable prices. Why are our energy needs even something that's an issue? This is a fundamental of civilisational competence. That was my instinct too, but I heard a German politician raise a point I hadn't thought of earlier today. Which is that the way the Russians attacked Chernobyl ought to give us pause for thought. A missile attack on a nuclear facility could be a disaster, so whether, and how, we can build safe reactors is a really big question. If we can build safe command bunkers, it ought to be possible, but current designs don't look adequate.
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| The groover Danbury 02 Apr 22 10.59am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
That was my instinct too, but I heard a German politician raise a point I hadn't thought of earlier today. Which is that the way the Russians attacked Chernobyl ought to give us pause for thought. A missile attack on a nuclear facility could be a disaster, so whether, and how, we can build safe reactors is a really big question. If we can build safe command bunkers, it ought to be possible, but current designs don't look adequate. That would be a red flag to push the button for sure.
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| Stirlingsays 02 Apr 22 11.01am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
This is the Pew research poll:- Unsurprisingly, it's complicated and this gives some interesting background:- I can instantly see that the top poll references Ukrainians as a whole and not Crimea. That wasn't what I was saying. Anyway like I said, I didn't agree with the coup but I also didn't agree with the annexation. Pretty much everything that's happened in the Ukraine has been from foreign meddling and pretty much for all its history as its a mixture of regional ethnic groups. There's a family party today that we are hosting so I'm off to cook muffins and pancakes but I'll have a peep back later.
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| Stirlingsays 02 Apr 22 11.05am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
That was my instinct too, but I heard a German politician raise a point I hadn't thought of earlier today. Which is that the way the Russians attacked Chernobyl ought to give us pause for thought. A missile attack on a nuclear facility could be a disaster, so whether, and how, we can build safe reactors is a really big question. If we can build safe command bunkers, it ought to be possible, but current designs don't look adequate. Saw you post just before I sign off. I agree, while I think its vital and that modern nuclear designs make accidents practically impossible I do agree that nuclear needs to be built underground for this reason. Every problem has a mitigation. A lot of the future involves underground, including travelling I think, something Musk is working on. Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Apr 2022 11.12am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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