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AERO 07 Jun 20 10.22pm | |
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No sorry just seen your pm. Will reply this week cheers
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Goal Machine The Cronx 08 Jun 20 9.48am | |
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What are my pension income options? This week’s article focuses on Defined Contribution (also known as Money Purchase) pensions only, as they are the most common form of private pension provision in the UK today. The following excludes Final Salary Pensions and the State Pension. Before I start, what is a Defined Contribution pension? Well, in its most simple form, it is a long-term savings account, which will be required in future to provide an income, to replace earnings once you have stopped working. The larger your pension pot at retirement is, the more income it will provide you for the rest of your life. Broadly speaking, there are two main options: a ‘Lifetime Annuity’ and ‘Flexi Access Drawdown’ (FAD). There are other hybrid type products available, but these two are by far the most common. It is worth noting, that it is not a case of selecting one or the other, you can split your pension savings to have a bit of both. With both these options, you are entitled to 25% of the pension pot tax free. However, the way on which you can take this differs across the products. The remaining 75% is taxed at your marginal rate upon withdrawal. These options are very different and choosing the right path is one of the biggest financial decisions you will ever make. Remember, this will provide your income for the rest of your life which could be 30-40 years. If you are unsure, this is the time to seek advice from a professional who will recommend the most suitable product for you. I can’t tell you which is best, as it is purely down to your personal circumstances as to what is most suitable. What I will provide is a high-level overview, highlighting the positives and negatives of each option. Option 1: Lifetime Annuity This is effectively a life assurance product, whereby the annuity provider, using health statistics, will attempt to guess your life expectancy and will pay you a guaranteed income for life, in exchange for a large lump sum (your pension pot). To give a simple example; a healthy 65-year-old might be expected to live for 20 years. Therefore, in exchange for a £100,000 pension fund, the annuity provider makes a promise to pay £5,000 income per year, guaranteed, until the individual dies. Each individual is underwritten on their medical conditions and the sicker you are, the more income you will receive - this is to reflect a shorter than average life expectancy. This is the only time you want to be sick when underwriting an insurance policy! Using the above example, lets assume that the individual was overweight, a heavy smoker and recently had a heart attack. The annuity provider instead estimates the life expectancy to be just 10 years and will therefore pay an income of £10,000 per year, rather than the £5,000 which a healthy person would get. The above is a simple example. Like all insurance policies, there are other features you can include, but the more of these you add, the lower your income payment will be. These features are: • Indexation. You can ensure the income increases every year to keep pace with inflation. You can choose to have this fixed at a certain percentage (e.g. 3%) or to a specific index such as RPI or CPI. Alternatively, you can keep it ‘level’ meaning it will remain the same throughout. • Dependents pension: You can select a percentage at the outset such as 50/67/100% which your dependent (doesn’t have to be a spouse) will receive as guaranteed income following death. If the annuitant was receiving £5,000 per year and had a 50% spouses’ pension, following death, the spouse would receive £2,500 per year until death. • Guarantee period: This guarantees that the full income will get paid for the remainder of the guarantee period, should the annuitant die earlier than expected. If the annuitant had set up a 10-year guarantee period and died after 4 years, the annuity income would continue to get paid to the estate for the remaining 6 years. Best annuity rates today using a healthy 65-year-old, spouse 3 years younger. £100,000 pension fund: - Single Life/level/nil guarantee (most basic): £4,785 pa To summarise: Positives: Negatives: Option 2: Flexi Access Drawdown (FAD) This option has become far more prevalent since the introduction of Pension Freedoms in 2015. With FAD, you can simply draw as much or as little income as you want, whenever you want. This comes with an element of risk. There are no income rates to show for FAD, like there are with a lifetime annuity. Scientific analysis believes that a 4% withdrawal rate would be sustainable for life (withdrawing £4,000pa from a £100,000 fund). This might seem quite straight forward from the above analogy but is far more complex than an annuity as I will explain. Positives: Negatives: Arranging your pension income is one of the biggest financial decision you will ever make as it might need to last you for 30-40 years As ever, please ask or pm me if you have any queries.
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Badger11 Beckenham 08 Jun 20 10.20am | |
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When I retired my company offered me 2 options for my pension. 1. An annuity from any market provider. This is important because some pensions are tied to 1 annuity provider and different companies will offer different deals. 2. I could transfer my pension to a private pension provider who offered a Drawdown option as Goal machine has described. In may case I went for option 2 as the annuity rate meant I would get a pension of something like 7k pa. The drawdown is riskier however I took the full 25% tax free which my wealth manager invests for me plus I have an income of £28k pa. If the numbers had been a lot closer I probably would have gone for an annuity but this was a no brainer. I should point out that I have other assets and when I get my state pension in 6 years time I will reduce the drawdown from the private pension by the equivalent. In other words 28k today will reduce to 20k plus the state pension. That should see me out for the rest of my life. Note I am not planning on leaving a lot of money in my will so if I live to 90 the pension pot will be tiny. One final thought as GM states once you buy an annuity you are locked in forever however a drawdown pension is a pot of money if in the future annuity rates suddenly increase or a new product appears you can switch to it. So flexibility is it's strength and weakness. Edited by Badger11 (08 Jun 2020 10.20am)
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Goal Machine The Cronx 08 Jun 20 5.30pm | |
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Originally posted by Badger11
When I retired my company offered me 2 options for my pension. 1. An annuity from any market provider. This is important because some pensions are tied to 1 annuity provider and different companies will offer different deals. 2. I could transfer my pension to a private pension provider who offered a Drawdown option as Goal machine has described. In may case I went for option 2 as the annuity rate meant I would get a pension of something like 7k pa. The drawdown is riskier however I took the full 25% tax free which my wealth manager invests for me plus I have an income of £28k pa. If the numbers had been a lot closer I probably would have gone for an annuity but this was a no brainer. I should point out that I have other assets and when I get my state pension in 6 years time I will reduce the drawdown from the private pension by the equivalent. In other words 28k today will reduce to 20k plus the state pension. That should see me out for the rest of my life. Note I am not planning on leaving a lot of money in my will so if I live to 90 the pension pot will be tiny. One final thought as GM states once you buy an annuity you are locked in forever however a drawdown pension is a pot of money if in the future annuity rates suddenly increase or a new product appears you can switch to it. So flexibility is it's strength and weakness. Edited by Badger11 (08 Jun 2020 10.20am) On this point, the industry came under heavy scrutiny several years ago as providers were making it too easy for retirees to simply accept the first annuity rate being offered to them. This meant that retirees were not shopping around for the best rate and losing out on millions of pounds of income. It is so important to shop around and speak with an Adviser when reaching retirement. Guaranteed income (annuity) and Drawdown often compliment each other well. Some people like to have a baseline of guaranteed income to cover their 'essential' expenditure, such as bills and food. This can be from a combination of State Pension, annuity and final salary pension. The rest of the pot (Drawdown) can simply remain invested and be used to dip into occasionally for large ad-hoc costs such as holidays, gifts and new cars.
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cryrst The garden of England 08 Jun 20 8.10pm | |
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Hi GM
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Goal Machine The Cronx 09 Jun 20 9.14am | |
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Originally posted by cryrst
Hi GM Morning Cryrst, no worries, just call when you're free. Yes, you are correct in your understanding. The mechanics would work as follows: You would need to 'crystalise' £20,000, of which 25% is your £5,000 tax free amount. The other £15,000 would be designated to drawdown, where you could either withdraw it as taxable income or leave it invested to grow. The remaining £80,000 of 'uncrystalised' pension can remain invested. Let's assume over the next 5 years this grows to £90,000, you would then in future be entitled to 25% of £90,000 (£22,500). Like before, you don't have to take it all in one go.
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Bexley Eagle Bexley Kent 09 Jun 20 10.43am | |
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Interested in what GM would consider a decent multiple for the transfer of a defined benefit pension to a money purchase scheme? I have an old RBS final salary scheme pension that I reckon will pay£900 a month from the age of 60. I recently did a transfer quote and they were offering in excess of 400k which I thought was very good. I always thought I would keep the pension as it is guaranteed but I did think the buy out rate was tempting
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JRW2 Dulwich 09 Jun 20 2.28pm | |
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Mr Goal Machine, You say that if the pensioner dies before age 75, what is left of his pension will be taxed at the recipient's marginal rate - which could be up to 45%. That seems to mean that a widow "inheriting" a pension pot of £400k could immediately have to give at least £80k, and up to £180k, of that sum to the tax man. I have always thought it was only the recipient's withdrawals from the pot that were taxed. Could you please clarify? PS: Do you ever regret starting this thread?!
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Goal Machine The Cronx 09 Jun 20 3.23pm | |
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Originally posted by Bexley Eagle
Interested in what GM would consider a decent multiple for the transfer of a defined benefit pension to a money purchase scheme? I have an old RBS final salary scheme pension that I reckon will pay£900 a month from the age of 60. I recently did a transfer quote and they were offering in excess of 400k which I thought was very good. I always thought I would keep the pension as it is guaranteed but I did think the buy out rate was tempting Hi Bexley, I'm a little uncomfortable putting a figure on a decent multiple. Recently I've seen figures as high as 40:1. It's easy to be distracted by the big numbers on offer from a transfer. The focus should be around what your retirement objectives are and what you feel most comfortable with. As you know, with a Final Salary pension, the main attraction is the guaranteed income for life with inflation proofing and usually with at least a 50% spouses pension. To give you an idea, if you were to buy a lifetime annuity on a like for like basis (i.e. £900 per month, 50% spouses pension, RPI inflation at age 60), it would cost you roughly £615,000 to buy that secure income. An advisers starting point will always be to assume that a transfer is not suitable. You may have seen the previous discussion around this earlier in the thread, but Final Salary transfers are becoming increasingly difficult for advisers to recommend a transfer away, the associated advice fees are expensive for the client too. There has to be genuinely good objectives as to why it would be in your best interests to transfer a final salary pension. An attractive transfer value would not be a justifiable reason to transfer in the eyes of the FCA. Unless the transfer value is below £30,000, you will need to see an adviser who would have to recommend that a transfer is suitable. It was announced just this Friday that the FCA is banning contingent charging on Final Salary Transfer Advice. Ultimately, what this means for the client, is that they have to pay the full fee in advance before the full advice process is carried out. For a £400,000 transfer value, this could mean you pay an upfront £12,000 fee only to be recommended that you remain in your current pension. The rules differ for those in serious ill health or in financial hardship. If you have other pension savings in a defined contribution pot, this will give you all the benefits of a transfer - flexibility, more choice around death benefits, tax efficiency. Edited by Goal Machine (09 Jun 2020 3.23pm) Edited by Goal Machine (09 Jun 2020 3.39pm)
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Goal Machine The Cronx 09 Jun 20 3.37pm | |
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Originally posted by JRW2
Mr Goal Machine, You say that if the pensioner dies before age 75, what is left of his pension will be taxed at the recipient's marginal rate - which could be up to 45%. That seems to mean that a widow "inheriting" a pension pot of £400k could immediately have to give at least £80k, and up to £180k, of that sum to the tax man. I have always thought it was only the recipient's withdrawals from the pot that were taxed. Could you please clarify? PS: Do you ever regret starting this thread?! Mr JRW2, Ha! No, I don't regret (yet!). Hopefully people are getting some benefit out of the thread. You never know, if someone would like help from an IFA one day, they'll think of me. When the pensioner dies before 75 it can be withdrawn tax free by the beneficiary. Using your example, when the pensioner dies after 75, it will pass to the widow tax free, but will be taxed at the widows marginal rate upon withdrawal - this could be 0% / 20% / 40% / 45% depending on their situation. So yes, you are correct. Just had the before/after 75 the wrong way around.
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JRW2 Dulwich 09 Jun 20 4.43pm | |
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Originally posted by Goal Machine
Mr JRW2, So yes, you are correct. Just had the before/after 75 the wrong way around.
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Bexley Eagle Bexley Kent 09 Jun 20 10.03pm | |
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GM I appreciate the response. It certainly sounds like the charges will be a barrier. I am in a fortunate position that between my wife and I we have 3 decent final salary pension schemes and 2 cash buyout pots. So I suspect we will leave them as they are maximising the monthly income, and using the cash funds as flexi draw downs. Congrats on a very interesting and useful thread.
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