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dannyboy1978 12 Aug 19 4.36pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle They haven't though ignored the referendum vote have they? Despite many having personal misgivings, including Mrs May, they have tried to find a way to implement the decision. So far nothing has gained a majority, not as to whether we will leave but how we will leave without causing unnecessary disruption and damage. That some feel the EU to be a "sht hole of "growing federalism" doesn't mean it is, or that everyone who voted to leave agrees with you. I don't see any Remainer "extremists". I see many pragmatists who want to stop us harming ourselves unnecessarily. I am in favour of remaining within a reformed EU. I don't know anyone who voted to remain who thinks the EU is perfect and entirely headed in the right direction. Like me they believe we are though better off inside than not and that we can help steer the EU towards the kind of organisation it needs to be.* If we rescue the UK from Brexit then the opportunities to achieve that are markedly better now than in 2016 for they too have stared into the abyss. In today's world we need to be a member of a big and powerful group, with coordinated standards and procedures. We are just too small to really make it on our own. The alternative is to link up with the USA and adopt their standards etc. Knowing both those standards as I do, there is just no comparison, so no choice. The EU is fact and science based. The USA is politically based. The EU is the future. The USA is yesterday. Remaining associated with the EU via a "deal" is the minimum we must accept. You just don't get it do you! That's the stupid argument people said when there were only eight members when it started, now Look how it's changed , what's next an EU army,not according to Mr leftie him self Nick Clegg!! The EU is changing ,we voted leave , get over it.
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dannyboy1978

12 Aug 19 4.36pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

They haven't though ignored the referendum vote have they? Despite many having personal misgivings, including Mrs May, they have tried to find a way to implement the decision. So far nothing has gained a majority, not as to whether we will leave but how we will leave without causing unnecessary disruption and damage.

That some feel the EU to be a "sh*t hole of "growing federalism" doesn't mean it is, or that everyone who voted to leave agrees with you.

I don't see any Remainer "extremists". I see many pragmatists who want to stop us harming ourselves unnecessarily. I am in favour of remaining within a reformed EU. I don't know anyone who voted to remain who thinks the EU is perfect and entirely headed in the right direction. Like me they believe we are though better off inside than not and that we can help steer the EU towards the kind of organisation it needs to be. If we rescue the UK from Brexit then the opportunities to achieve that are markedly better now than in 2016 for they too have stared into the abyss. In today's world we need to be a member of a big and powerful group, with coordinated standards and procedures. We are just too small to really make it on our own. The alternative is to link up with the USA and adopt their standards etc. Knowing both those standards as I do, there is just no comparison, so no choice. The EU is fact and science based. The USA is politically based. The EU is the future. The USA is yesterday. Remaining associated with the EU via a "deal" is the minimum we must accept.

You just don't get it do you! That's the stupid argument people said when there were only eight members when it started, now Look how it's changed , what's next an EU army,not according to Mr leftie him self Nick Clegg!!

The EU is changing ,we voted leave , get over it.

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W12 14 Aug 19 10.22am
Originally posted by dannyboy1978 You just don't get it do you! That's the stupid argument people said when there were only eight members when it started, now Look how it's changed , what's next an EU army,not according to Mr leftie him self Nick Clegg!! The EU is changing ,we voted leave , get over it. Correct, the EU is only going in one direction and it's un-elected leaders are all saying this openly. What makes anyone think otherwise? It's similar to the Islamists in the way people are willing to ignore openly and repeatably stated aims for their own political purposes (or just to comfort themselves) and replacing them with their own interpretations. I tend to believe what people are telling me unless I suspect an ulterior motive. The other question I have is why people on the left seem to think the EU somehow represents a socialist dream rather than a globalist nightmare? How could you possibly be so bereft of reality?
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W12 14 Aug 19 10.22am

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

The EU is changing ,we voted leave , get over it.

Correct, the EU is only going in one direction and it's un-elected leaders are all saying this openly. What makes anyone think otherwise?

It's similar to the Islamists in the way people are willing to ignore openly and repeatably stated aims for their own political purposes (or just to comfort themselves) and replacing them with their own
interpretations. I tend to believe what people are telling me unless I suspect an ulterior motive.

The other question I have is why people on the left seem to think the EU somehow represents a socialist dream rather than a globalist nightmare? How could you possibly be so bereft of reality?

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silvertop Portishead 14 Aug 19 11.15am
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow Is it not possible their mental illness stems from the fact they don’t feel at home in the own body? I don’t do a great deal about trans people, but it seems quite obvious that someone going through that sort of battle internally is going to have issues with mental health - by ‘not enabling them to chop their codgers off’ how are we helping that? Is the obvious response. Also, in terms of the title by the OP, what on earth has this cross-political issue got to do with lefties? Unless you are intending to incite this bite [in which case kudos] it is about as daft as those on here who band remoaners and lefties together.
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silvertop

Portishead 14 Aug 19 11.15am

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Is it not possible their mental illness stems from the fact they don’t feel at home in the own body?

I don’t do a great deal about trans people, but it seems quite obvious that someone going through that sort of battle internally is going to have issues with mental health - by ‘not enabling them to chop their codgers off’ how are we helping that?

Is the obvious response.

Also, in terms of the title by the OP, what on earth has this cross-political issue got to do with lefties? Unless you are intending to incite this bite [in which case kudos] it is about as daft as those on here who band remoaners and lefties together.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 14 Aug 19 1.26pm
Originally posted by W12 Correct, the EU is only going in one direction and it's un-elected leaders are all saying this openly. What makes anyone think otherwise? It's similar to the Islamists in the way people are willing to ignore openly and repeatably stated aims for their own political purposes (or just to comfort themselves) and replacing them with their own interpretations. I tend to believe what people are telling me unless I suspect an ulterior motive. The other question I have is why people on the left seem to think the EU somehow represents a socialist dream rather than a globalist nightmare? How could you possibly be so bereft of reality? That's complete bs. The leaders of the EU are the heads of state of it's members. All are elected. Nothing major will happen unless they all agree. That some officials make noises about what they are personally in favour of means very little in the overall scheme of things. The idea that a "EU army" is suddenly going to be formed, and the British army disappear, is quite ridiculous scaremongering. What is much more likely to happen is an increasing level of co-operation over procurement and training so that combined, coordinated future efforts are made simpler, more effective and cheaper. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 14 Aug 19 1.26pm

Originally posted by W12

Correct, the EU is only going in one direction and it's un-elected leaders are all saying this openly. What makes anyone think otherwise?

The other question I have is why people on the left seem to think the EU somehow represents a socialist dream rather than a globalist nightmare? How could you possibly be so bereft of reality?

That's complete bs. The leaders of the EU are the heads of state of it's members. All are elected. Nothing major will happen unless they all agree. That some officials make noises about what they are personally in favour of means very little in the overall scheme of things.

The idea that a "EU army" is suddenly going to be formed, and the British army disappear, is quite ridiculous scaremongering.

What is much more likely to happen is an increasing level of co-operation over procurement and training so that combined, coordinated future efforts are made simpler, more effective and cheaper.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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dannyboy1978 14 Aug 19 2.55pm
I had an interesting conversation with a female friend about new toilets being built in hospitals and they are now required to build transgender toilets. She is liberal in her political views, however. who sounds the liberal? She wants the toilets built because she feels uncomfortable around transgender people whilst in the toilet, that doesn't sound very tolerant to me? I don't think the toilets should be built because I couldn't care less if a transgender Was in the toilet and the cost is huge for a tiny minority. 0.2% I believe I'm finding these liberals love the fluffy sound of being liberal but don't step up to the mark!!
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dannyboy1978

14 Aug 19 2.55pm

I had an interesting conversation with a female friend about new toilets being built in hospitals and they are now required to build transgender toilets. She is liberal in her political views, however.

who sounds the liberal?

She wants the toilets built because she feels uncomfortable around transgender people whilst in the toilet, that doesn't sound very tolerant to me?

I don't think the toilets should be built because I couldn't care less if a transgender
Was in the toilet and the cost is huge for a tiny minority. 0.2% I believe

I'm finding these liberals love the fluffy sound of being liberal but don't step up to the mark!!

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W12 14 Aug 19 3.18pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle That's complete bs. The leaders of the EU are the heads of state of it's members. All are elected. Nothing major will happen unless they all agree. That some officials make noises about what they are personally in favour of means very little in the overall scheme of things. The idea that a "EU army" is suddenly going to be formed, and the British army disappear, is quite ridiculous scaremongering. What is much more likely to happen is an increasing level of co-operation over procurement and training so that combined, coordinated future efforts are made simpler, more effective and cheaper. "That's complete bs" Maybe you could explain how the choice of the head of the EU commission (and the EU commissioners) is at all democratic? This is the body that proposes all EU legislation and manages the budget.
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W12 14 Aug 19 3.18pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

The idea that a "EU army" is suddenly going to be formed, and the British army disappear, is quite ridiculous scaremongering.

What is much more likely to happen is an increasing level of co-operation over procurement and training so that combined, coordinated future efforts are made simpler, more effective and cheaper.

"That's complete bs"

Maybe you could explain how the choice of the head of the EU commission (and the EU commissioners) is at all democratic? This is the body that proposes all EU legislation and manages the budget.

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dannyboy1978 14 Aug 19 3.29pm
Originally posted by W12 "That's complete bs" Maybe you could explain how the choice of the head of the EU commission (and the EU commissioners) is at all democratic? This is the body that proposes all EU legislation and manages the budget. Did some one mention EU auditor's? If only lol
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dannyboy1978

14 Aug 19 3.29pm

Originally posted by W12

"That's complete bs"

Maybe you could explain how the choice of the head of the EU commission (and the EU commissioners) is at all democratic? This is the body that proposes all EU legislation and manages the budget.

Did some one mention EU auditor's? If only lol

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steeleye20 Croydon 14 Aug 19 3.40pm
Originally posted by W12 "That's complete bs" Maybe you could explain how the choice of the head of the EU commission (and the EU commissioners) is at all democratic? This is the body that proposes all EU legislation and manages the budget. Well the UK government is elected and nominates its own commissioners, as do the others. The EU commission is not a parliament, there is the EU parliament. You wouldn't want the House of Commons actually running anything, God help us. The EU negotiators are competent officials as we have clearly seen, they do not turn up at a negotiation with a blankety-blank pencil set and lecture people about democracy, not that the UK is actually a democracy anyway. I do not think of commissioners as elected politicians but as EU public servants at a very high level.
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steeleye20

Croydon 14 Aug 19 3.40pm

Originally posted by W12

"That's complete bs"

Maybe you could explain how the choice of the head of the EU commission (and the EU commissioners) is at all democratic? This is the body that proposes all EU legislation and manages the budget.

Well the UK government is elected and nominates its own commissioners, as do the others.

The EU commission is not a parliament, there is the EU parliament.

You wouldn't want the House of Commons actually running anything, God help us.

The EU negotiators are competent officials as we have clearly seen, they do not turn up at a negotiation with a blankety-blank pencil set and lecture people about democracy, not that the UK is actually a democracy anyway.

I do not think of commissioners as elected politicians but as EU public servants at a very high level.

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Stirlingsays 14 Aug 19 3.49pm
Steely bless him isn't a Democrat....He's a Steelyocrat....meaning that he only likes Democracy when it's doing what he wants. He talk any old crap....the Catalonia stuff taught me that. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

14 Aug 19 3.49pm

Steely bless him isn't a Democrat....He's a Steelyocrat....meaning that he only likes Democracy when it's doing what he wants.

He talk any old crap....the Catalonia stuff taught me that.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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W12 14 Aug 19 3.51pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 Well the UK government is elected and nominates its own commissioners, as do the others. "nominates" - so not elected then The EU commission is not a parliament, there is the EU parliament. the EU parliament only has the power to make amendments or rubber stamp EC Commission legislation You wouldn't want the House of Commons actually running anything, God help us. I wouldn't want the current house of commons running anything but what's that got to do with this? The EU negotiators are competent officials as we have clearly seen, they do not turn up at a negotiation with a blankety-blank pencil set and lecture people about democracy, not that the UK is actually a democracy anyway. I do not think of commissioners as elected politicians but as EU public servants at a very high level. "This Week host Andrew Neil discusses the EU commission jobs. He says they went to 'a failed German defence minister, a failed Belgian Prime Minister, a former finance minister found guilty of negligence in a multimillion pound euro scandal" [Link] They are anti-democratic and un-elected
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W12 14 Aug 19 3.51pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Well the UK government is elected and nominates its own commissioners, as do the others.

"nominates" - so not elected then

The EU commission is not a parliament, there is the EU parliament.

the EU parliament only has the power to make amendments or rubber stamp EC Commission legislation

You wouldn't want the House of Commons actually running anything, God help us.

I wouldn't want the current house of commons running anything but what's that got to do with this?

I do not think of commissioners as elected politicians but as EU public servants at a very high level.

"This Week host Andrew Neil discusses the EU commission jobs. He says they went to 'a failed German defence minister, a failed Belgian Prime Minister, a former finance minister found guilty of negligence in a multimillion pound euro scandal"

[Link]

They are anti-democratic and un-elected

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steeleye20 Croydon 14 Aug 19 3.57pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Steely bless him isn't a Democrat....He's a Steelyocrat....meaning that he only likes Democracy when it's doing what he wants. He talk any old crap....the Catalonia stuff taught me that. A 'steelyocracy' would be paradise compared to democracy. An immediate benefit would be free 'Wilfrid Zaha' mobile phone wallpaper. What more would anyone need.
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steeleye20

Croydon 14 Aug 19 3.57pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Steely bless him isn't a Democrat....He's a Steelyocrat....meaning that he only likes Democracy when it's doing what he wants.

He talk any old crap....the Catalonia stuff taught me that.

A 'steelyocracy' would be paradise compared to democracy.

An immediate benefit would be free 'Wilfrid Zaha' mobile phone wallpaper.

What more would anyone need.

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Stirlingsays 14 Aug 19 4.00pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 A 'steelyocracy' would be paradise compared to democracy. An immediate benefit would be free 'Wilfrid Zaha' mobile phone wallpaper. What more would anyone need. I could be convinced.....with a few brown envelopes.....Mmmm...scrub that....I'm worried about what you'd put in those envelopes....probably too brown for my liking. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

14 Aug 19 4.00pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

A 'steelyocracy' would be paradise compared to democracy.

An immediate benefit would be free 'Wilfrid Zaha' mobile phone wallpaper.

What more would anyone need.

I could be convinced.....with a few brown envelopes.....Mmmm...scrub that....I'm worried about what you'd put in those envelopes....probably too brown for my liking.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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