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Holmesdale Singing Section (LOCKED)

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Palace in the Blood 15 Oct 18 9.18am
Originally posted by BuckinghamshireEagle What a shame that this could not have been sorted out through discussion between the club, the HF and other fans in the LH. But since it was not, the club should have stuck to their original position. Without doubt the u-turn is due to the Main Stand redevelopment and possibility of a standing section receding into the distance. It is more than shameful. The original statement was correct. Forcing 100 loyal fans to move would have been unfair. Now it is extended to 400. I’m sure this is only to perpetuate the lie that it is being done to create a larger “singing section” rather than to advantage one group of supporters over another. When only 100 or so of these seats have been taken up will the others be offered back to their original holders, even if they have accepted a worse seat elsewhere in the interim? It’s a mess, is likely to get very ugly and has the potential to cause long term damage to the relationship between the club and its loyal fans, whether they sit in Block E or not. I agree with most of this wholeheartedly. The club should have stuck to its original statement and consulted all sides properly. Firstly found out if supporters wanted a singing section, Secondly who wanted to be part. Having found out demand they could have started to negotiate it a home, inevitably this would have still meant moving people but they would have a mandate from supporters now they don't. I think the paragraph on u turn is wrong I think safe standing trials will begin next season. These problems relate to this singing section decision. By on paper allowing a standing section in setting up the singing section it allows planning decision to be questioned and will almost certainly stop a safe standing trial at Palace. This is why club I suggest has taken professional advice and have said the singing section is to be seated. However if the HF are the singing section will they remain seated? Will club enforce it? Authorities will wait and see
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Palace in the Blood

15 Oct 18 9.18am

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Originally posted by BuckinghamshireEagle

What a shame that this could not have been sorted out through discussion between the club, the HF and other fans in the LH. But since it was not, the club should have stuck to their original position.
Without doubt the u-turn is due to the Main Stand redevelopment and possibility of a standing section receding into the distance.
It is more than shameful. The original statement was correct. Forcing 100 loyal fans to move would have been unfair. Now it is extended to 400. I’m sure this is only to perpetuate the lie that it is being done to create a larger “singing section” rather than to advantage one group of supporters over another. When only 100 or so of these seats have been taken up will the others be offered back to their original holders, even if they have accepted a worse seat elsewhere in the interim?
It’s a mess, is likely to get very ugly and has the potential to cause long term damage to the relationship between the club and its loyal fans, whether they sit in Block E or not.

I agree with most of this wholeheartedly. The club should have stuck to its original statement and consulted all sides properly. Firstly found out if supporters wanted a singing section, Secondly who wanted to be part. Having found out demand they could have started to negotiate it a home, inevitably this would have still meant moving people but they would have a mandate from supporters now they don't.

I think the paragraph on u turn is wrong I think safe standing trials will begin next season. These problems relate to this singing section decision. By on paper allowing a standing section in setting up the singing section it allows planning decision to be questioned and will almost certainly stop a safe standing trial at Palace. This is why club I suggest has taken professional advice and have said the singing section is to be seated. However if the HF are the singing section will they remain seated? Will club enforce it? Authorities will wait and see

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turbohorsebox Coulsdon 15 Oct 18 1.23pm
Originally posted by Spitfire With well over 200 pages on the HF and this thread combined one thing strikes me as missing. No comment from the HF, no one seeming to purport to be part of it. Their entire dealings seem under the radar and secretive, yet they have the ear of the club / SP because of singing and waving flags at home games (which I do think adds to atmosphere) I say home games as I rarely see them away from home and I've only missed one away game in 3 seasons. Many of the Block E people I know have been to many more away games as well as having their home ST's. The HF's importance, impact and fanaticism seems to be massively overstated. There appears to me no reason why they couldn't continue in block B adding to their membership as seats in that section became available. They chose not to come as a group, nobody stopped them. To then be allowed back next season, in their own bigger section, to the detriment of 400 of the most loyal and long serving supporters is scandalous. Steve Parish you should hang your head in shame. They got the hump because their sole reason for being there (to goad and wind up the opposition fans, not to support the club) was taken away when the away fans were moved to the other end of the Arthur to avoid higher policing costs. No point in staying to just bang a drum and sing a bit. All good. Nothing bad.
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turbohorsebox

Coulsdon 15 Oct 18 1.23pm

Originally posted by Spitfire

With well over 200 pages on the HF and this thread combined one thing strikes me as missing.

No comment from the HF, no one seeming to purport to be part of it. Their entire dealings seem under the radar and secretive, yet they have the ear of the club / SP because of singing and waving flags at home games (which I do think adds to atmosphere)

I say home games as I rarely see them away from home and I've only missed one away game in 3 seasons.

Many of the Block E people I know have been to many more away games as well as having their home ST's. The HF's importance, impact and fanaticism seems to be massively overstated.

There appears to me no reason why they couldn't continue in block B adding to their membership as seats in that section became available. They chose not to come as a group, nobody stopped them.

To then be allowed back next season, in their own bigger section, to the detriment of 400 of the most loyal and long serving supporters is scandalous.

Steve Parish you should hang your head in shame.

They got the hump because their sole reason for being there (to goad and wind up the opposition fans, not to support the club) was taken away when the away fans were moved to the other end of the Arthur to avoid higher policing costs.

No point in staying to just bang a drum and sing a bit.

All good. Nothing bad.

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eagleman13 On The Road To Hell & Alicante 15 Oct 18 3.55pm
Originally posted by turbohorsebox They got the hump because their sole reason for being there (to goad and wind up the opposition fans, not to support the club) was taken away when the away fans were moved to the other end of the Arthur to avoid higher policing costs. No point in staying to just bang a drum and sing a bit. THIS, with huge amount of bells on This operation, will make the 'Charge Of The Light Brigade' seem like a simple military exercise.
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eagleman13

On The Road To Hell & Alicante 15 Oct 18 3.55pm

Originally posted by turbohorsebox

No point in staying to just bang a drum and sing a bit.

THIS, with huge amount of bells on

This operation, will make the 'Charge Of The Light Brigade' seem like a simple military exercise.

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bromleysteve01 Bromley 15 Oct 18 6.25pm
Decision on who sits in Block E should be based on loyalty points @500 per season since stand was built based on contribution and yearly commitment and renewals and funds invested to club The HF are good but were fine in Block B. They had a tantrum and did not renew their seats and maybe are not even season ticket holders anymore so Club could prioritise a non season ticket holder over loyal ST holders since stand was built? Current Block E could dress in black, start singing and banging some drums and re-name themselves Holmesdale Geriactics. Probably a legal case for ageism?
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bromleysteve01

Bromley 15 Oct 18 6.25pm

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Decision on who sits in Block E should be based on loyalty points @500 per season since stand was built based on contribution and yearly commitment and renewals and funds invested to club
The HF are good but were fine in Block B. They had a tantrum and did not renew their seats and maybe are not even season ticket holders anymore so Club could prioritise a non season ticket holder over loyal ST holders since stand was built?
Current Block E could dress in black, start singing and banging some drums and re-name themselves Holmesdale Geriactics.
Probably a legal case for ageism?

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BuckinghamshireEagle 15 Oct 18 7.22pm
Originally posted by Palace in the Blood I think the paragraph on u turn is wrong I think safe standing trials will begin next season. These problems relate to this singing section decision. By on paper allowing a standing section in setting up the singing section it allows planning decision to be questioned and will almost certainly stop a safe standing trial at Palace. This is why club I suggest has taken professional advice and have said the singing section is to be seated. However if the HF are the singing section will they remain seated? Will club enforce it? Authorities will wait and see You may be right, we’ll see. My experience is that the government moves at the speed of rock erosion on such things. They have asked for additional research to be completed by the end of the year. That will be late. Then they need to consider it - usually a minimum of 6 months. I think it will be August 2019 at the earliest before they are ready to amend legislation to even allow trials, but I hope I’m wrong.
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BuckinghamshireEagle

15 Oct 18 7.22pm

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Originally posted by Palace in the Blood

You may be right, we’ll see. My experience is that the government moves at the speed of rock erosion on such things. They have asked for additional research to be completed by the end of the year. That will be late. Then they need to consider it - usually a minimum of 6 months. I think it will be August 2019 at the earliest before they are ready to amend legislation to even allow trials, but I hope I’m wrong.

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Painter Croydon 15 Oct 18 7.46pm
If anyone still thinks this HF group are good for Palace, need their heads tested. They appear to have set themselves up as an elitist group, who think they are better than other Palace fans. It doesn't matter what atmosphere they bring to Selhurst Park on match days. I am surprised Parish has succumbed to their demands, it isn't going to end well for anyone in the long term.
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Painter

Croydon 15 Oct 18 7.46pm

If anyone still thinks this HF group are good for Palace, need their heads tested.
They appear to have set themselves up as an elitist group, who think they are better than other Palace fans.
It doesn't matter what atmosphere they bring to Selhurst Park on match days. I am surprised Parish has succumbed to their demands, it isn't going to end well for anyone in the long term.

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.TUX. 15 Oct 18 8.19pm
Originally posted by Painter If anyone still thinks this HF group are good for Palace, need their heads tested. They are. They appear to have set themselves up as an elitist group, who think they are better than other Palace fans. It doesn't ''appear'' that way to many of us. 99% of the effort that the group have put in for the past 13yrs should be applauded, not continually derided. It doesn't matter what atmosphere they bring to Selhurst Park on match days. It obviously does and would that be the same atmosphere that everyone of us has happily wallowed in since our last promotion? Yeah, i thought so. I am surprised Parish has succumbed to their demands, That's because you're not as intelligent as him. it isn't going to end well for anyone in the long term. See above. Buy Litecoin.
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.TUX.

15 Oct 18 8.19pm

Originally posted by Painter

If anyone still thinks this HF group are good for Palace, need their heads tested.

They are.

They appear to have set themselves up as an elitist group, who think they are better than other Palace fans.

It doesn't ''appear'' that way to many of us. 99% of the effort that the group have put in for the past 13yrs should be applauded, not continually derided.

It doesn't matter what atmosphere they bring to Selhurst Park on match days.

It obviously does and would that be the same atmosphere that everyone of us has happily wallowed in since our last promotion? Yeah, i thought so.

I am surprised Parish has succumbed to their demands,

That's because you're not as intelligent as him.

it isn't going to end well for anyone in the long term.

See above.

Buy Litecoin.

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tinribzzz BROMLEY 15 Oct 18 9.54pm
Originally posted by .TUX. Sense!
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tinribzzz

BROMLEY 15 Oct 18 9.54pm

Originally posted by .TUX.

Sense!

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the.universal 15 Oct 18 10.12pm
Originally posted by .TUX. We don’t always agree, but i’m totally with you on this one. Vive le Roy!
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the.universal 15 Oct 18 10.12pm

Originally posted by .TUX.

We don’t always agree, but i’m totally with you on this one.

Vive le Roy!

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Aray South London 15 Oct 18 10.33pm
I am really torn on this. Selfishly I cant wait for the HF to return as we've become reliant on them kickstarting our singing etc. It has been like a morgue all season. And obviously while no one can prove they help our home performances at least we have a buzzing atmosphere when they are around. But but but...This kinda stinks. It takes a while to build relationships but once formed they do matter. I actually think one of the reasons the Emirates is so dead is because when Arsenal moved from Highbury the chemistry went too. CPFC probably messed up the non-consultation around this idea but does that justify the HF going on strike? They've really not given a clear reason for not continuing. Some wishy washy talk about not moving forward?? So now we have 400 loyal fans displaced and, given how poor the club's administration is, I fear the box office will fail to deliver efficiently the proposed moves. Lets face it will be a very complicated procedure for a competent operation - and ours is not. My view is anyone displaced should have a free ticket for at least one season. And cut price until the new stand is built. And as for the HF - I fear they may have overplayed their hand here. Would be a shame if we became a divided fanbase because of this.
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Aray

South London 15 Oct 18 10.33pm

I am really torn on this. Selfishly I cant wait for the HF to return as we've become reliant on them kickstarting our singing etc. It has been like a morgue all season. And obviously while no one can prove they help our home performances at least we have a buzzing atmosphere when they are around.

But but but...This kinda stinks. It takes a while to build relationships but once formed they do matter. I actually think one of the reasons the Emirates is so dead is because when Arsenal moved from Highbury the chemistry went too.

CPFC probably messed up the non-consultation around this idea but does that justify the HF going on strike? They've really not given a clear reason for not continuing. Some wishy washy talk about not moving forward??

So now we have 400 loyal fans displaced and, given how poor the club's administration is, I fear the box office will fail to deliver efficiently the proposed moves. Lets face it will be a very complicated procedure for a competent operation - and ours is not.

My view is anyone displaced should have a free ticket for at least one season. And cut price until the new stand is built.

And as for the HF - I fear they may have overplayed their hand here. Would be a shame if we became a divided fanbase because of this.

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PZ Eagle Penzance 15 Oct 18 11.12pm
Originally posted by Aray I am really torn on this. Selfishly I cant wait for the HF to return as we've become reliant on them kickstarting our singing etc. It has been like a morgue all season. And obviously while no one can prove they help our home performances at least we have a buzzing atmosphere when they are around. But but but...This kinda stinks. It takes a while to build relationships but once formed they do matter. I actually think one of the reasons the Emirates is so dead is because when Arsenal moved from Highbury the chemistry went too. CPFC probably messed up the non-consultation around this idea but does that justify the HF going on strike? They've really not given a clear reason for not continuing. Some wishy washy talk about not moving forward?? So now we have 400 loyal fans displaced and, given how poor the club's administration is, I fear the box office will fail to deliver efficiently the proposed moves. Lets face it will be a very complicated procedure for a competent operation - and ours is not. My view is anyone displaced should have a free ticket for at least one season. And cut price until the new stand is built. And as for the HF - I fear they may have overplayed their hand here. Would be a shame if we became a divided fanbase because of this. (quote] What do you mean "if we became a divided fanbase because of this? We already are all because the HF didn't get their own way diddums. Conjunctivitis.com - A site for sore eyes.
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PZ Eagle

Penzance 15 Oct 18 11.12pm

Originally posted by Aray

My view is anyone displaced should have a free ticket for at least one season. And cut price until the new stand is built.

And as for the HF - I fear they may have overplayed their hand here. Would be a shame if we became a divided fanbase because of this.
(quote]

What do you mean "if we became a divided fanbase because of this?

We already are all because the HF didn't get their own way diddums.

Conjunctivitis.com - A site for sore eyes.

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becky over the moon 16 Oct 18 6.21am
I wonder if anyone has actually given any thought as to what happens if this fails to work? By next August, some members of the HF, having been 'disestablished' for nearly a year, may have moved on/moved away and not want to move back. Have they actually made any comment on the Block E development? Have they expressed their pleasure at what the club is doing for them? Have they said that they will be there ??????? When their Block B tickets were made available, there was lots of noise and enthusiasm from people on here about taking them up and getting something started to fill in until they returned. Did it happen? Well, if it did, nobody seems to have noticed! To have a dedicated 'singing section' obviously you have to have people to sing, but more than that, you have to have the structure to generate the singing: as we have seen with the HF - a drum, a 'choirmaster' and a repertoire are the basic essentials to make it work. So if the HF are not back in full force ( plus their 'waiting list' colleagues), where will these singers come from? A few young (and not so young) blokes will not be able to generate anything like the same atmosphere without some organisation and leadership as we have seen- see the comment on the current Block B situation above! I just hope that Steve parish has really done his homework on this, because if the HF are not there in full force (plus extras) and it does fail then not only will our club be a laughing stock for developing a singing section, but a total joke if that section then doesn't actually sing to create a far, far bigger atmosphere than was produced by Block B. A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers
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becky

over the moon 16 Oct 18 6.21am

I wonder if anyone has actually given any thought as to what happens if this fails to work?

By next August, some members of the HF, having been 'disestablished' for nearly a year, may have moved on/moved away and not want to move back. Have they actually made any comment on the Block E development? Have they expressed their pleasure at what the club is doing for them? Have they said that they will be there ???????

When their Block B tickets were made available, there was lots of noise and enthusiasm from people on here about taking them up and getting something started to fill in until they returned. Did it happen? Well, if it did, nobody seems to have noticed!

To have a dedicated 'singing section' obviously you have to have people to sing, but more than that, you have to have the structure to generate the singing: as we have seen with the HF - a drum, a 'choirmaster' and a repertoire are the basic essentials to make it work.

So if the HF are not back in full force ( plus their 'waiting list' colleagues), where will these singers come from? A few young (and not so young) blokes will not be able to generate anything like the same atmosphere without some organisation and leadership as we have seen- see the comment on the current Block B situation above!

I just hope that Steve parish has really done his homework on this, because if the HF are not there in full force (plus extras) and it does fail then not only will our club be a laughing stock for developing a singing section, but a total joke if that section then doesn't actually sing to create a far, far bigger atmosphere than was produced by Block B.

A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

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