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Stuk Top half 26 Sep 17 3.22pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 What's with the stuff on their faces? Is it part of the 'protest'? Edited by hedgehog50 (26 Sep 2017 3.16pm) No. It's put on to enhance the difference between light and dark colours and therefore help you to see the ball better in bright conditions. Optimistic as ever
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Stuk

Top half 26 Sep 17 3.22pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

What's with the stuff on their faces? Is it part of the 'protest'?

Edited by hedgehog50 (26 Sep 2017 3.16pm)

No. It's put on to enhance the difference between light and dark colours and therefore help you to see the ball better in bright conditions.

Optimistic as ever

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Ray in Houston Houston 26 Sep 17 3.22pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 What's with the stuff on their faces? Is it part of the 'protest'? Edited by hedgehog50 (26 Sep 2017 3.16pm) No. Players have always worn charcoal on their faces (for reasons I have yet to fathom). Attachment: watt600.jpg (206.31Kb) We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 26 Sep 17 3.22pm

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Originally posted by hedgehog50

What's with the stuff on their faces? Is it part of the 'protest'?

Edited by hedgehog50 (26 Sep 2017 3.16pm)

No. Players have always worn charcoal on their faces (for reasons I have yet to fathom).

Attachment: watt600.jpg (206.31Kb)

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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hedgehog50 Croydon 26 Sep 17 3.24pm
Originally posted by Stuk No. It's put on to enhance the difference between light and dark colours and therefore help you to see the ball better in bright conditions. Is this serious? People of colour put dark colours on their face to see the ball better! I always thought American Football was a bit of a joke, this just confirms it. Edited by hedgehog50 (26 Sep 2017 3.26pm) We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 26 Sep 17 3.24pm

Originally posted by Stuk

No. It's put on to enhance the difference between light and dark colours and therefore help you to see the ball better in bright conditions.

Is this serious? People of colour put dark colours on their face to see the ball better! I always thought American Football was a bit of a joke, this just confirms it.

Edited by hedgehog50 (26 Sep 2017 3.26pm)

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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hedgehog50 Croydon 26 Sep 17 3.25pm
Originally posted by Ray in Houston There's a point there that you're ignoring because it pouts your racist argument to the sword. As I said: hilarious. Edited by Ray in Houston (26 Sep 2017 3.07pm) What racist argument am I 'pouting'? We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 26 Sep 17 3.25pm

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

There's a point there that you're ignoring because it pouts your racist argument to the sword.

As I said: hilarious.

Edited by Ray in Houston (26 Sep 2017 3.07pm)

What racist argument am I 'pouting'?

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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Ray in Houston Houston 26 Sep 17 3.26pm
Originally posted by wordup It's just another sign of how low people can go and still maintain allegiance based on shared politics. And yet a few black blokes take a knee for something they hold dear after teammates were called sons of bitches by their own president and it's the end of the world. Once again you have to strain an argument to the very edge of reality in order to argue against it. It's those who oppose the protest who are unhinged. Those who support the protest are outraged at the reason behind the protest - the unchecked use of excessive violence by police when interacting with people of colour. One of these things is not like the other. We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 26 Sep 17 3.26pm

Originally posted by wordup

It's just another sign of how low people can go and still maintain allegiance based on shared politics. And yet a few black blokes take a knee for something they hold dear after teammates were called sons of bitches by their own president and it's the end of the world.

Once again you have to strain an argument to the very edge of reality in order to argue against it.

It's those who oppose the protest who are unhinged. Those who support the protest are outraged at the reason behind the protest - the unchecked use of excessive violence by police when interacting with people of colour. One of these things is not like the other.

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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jamiemartin721 Reading 26 Sep 17 3.27pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 Sport and politics don't mix you said. Does it not go both ways then in Hrolfsweirdworldofwisdom? On a football forum, oh the irony. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 26 Sep 17 3.27pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

Sport and politics don't mix you said. Does it not go both ways then in Hrolfsweirdworldofwisdom?

On a football forum, oh the irony.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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wordup 26 Sep 17 3.27pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays You are talking rubbish when you put forward the opinion that you know mine and perhaps other's motivations. That's fine for me to say. You have your opinion and that's mine. I can't help it that you take 'don't speak for others' literally as if I'm trying to stop your freedom of speech. I'm not....I'm criticising you for doing it. There is a massive difference between the two. As for 'black players', this relates to the 'white' and whatever else players who have also done this. I don't believe sport and politics should mix for the reasons stated. How hardcore am I about that? It isn't a hill I'd die on no....but It's bad for business and divisive for sure. As for banning people...I see the sense in what Fifa and the Olympics do....but I'm automatically opposed to banning most things...It's something I'm glad I don't have to decide upon. Everyone should be allowed freedom of speech. By the same token practical considerations for when and where that speech is appropriate also matter too. Both matter. Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Sep 2017 3.17pm) Well yes of course, if it's someone on the right backtracking after gross statements about how kid f***ing can enrich some individuals, we're all obliged to take their statement due to intense media pressure at face value. In fact Ray is chastised by you here for not doing so. But a black man on a knee at a football game, tut tut, no that simply won't do. It's just some uppity types who need to be educated as to when it's appropriate for them to express their view. Mr freedom of speech has spoken. Edited by wordup (26 Sep 2017 3.28pm)
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wordup

26 Sep 17 3.27pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

You are talking rubbish when you put forward the opinion that you know mine and perhaps other's motivations. That's fine for me to say. You have your opinion and that's mine.

I can't help it that you take 'don't speak for others' literally as if I'm trying to stop your freedom of speech. I'm not....I'm criticising you for doing it. There is a massive difference between the two.

As for 'black players', this relates to the 'white' and whatever else players who have also done this.

I don't believe sport and politics should mix for the reasons stated. How hardcore am I about that? It isn't a hill I'd die on no....but It's bad for business and divisive for sure. As for banning people...I see the sense in what Fifa and the Olympics do....but I'm automatically opposed to banning most things...It's something I'm glad I don't have to decide upon. Everyone should be allowed freedom of speech. By the same token practical considerations for when and where that speech is appropriate also matter too.

Both matter.

Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Sep 2017 3.17pm)

Well yes of course, if it's someone on the right backtracking after gross statements about how kid f***ing can enrich some individuals, we're all obliged to take their statement due to intense media pressure at face value. In fact Ray is chastised by you here for not doing so. But a black man on a knee at a football game, tut tut, no that simply won't do. It's just some uppity types who need to be educated as to when it's appropriate for them to express their view. Mr freedom of speech has spoken.

Edited by wordup (26 Sep 2017 3.28pm)

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Ray in Houston Houston 26 Sep 17 3.29pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 What racist argument am I 'pouting'? Well, I never said you were "pouting" anything. I said that I "put" (obvious typo) your racist argument to the sword. If you want to know what racist argument that was, just go back and read the post I was responding to. It's right there in your own words. We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 26 Sep 17 3.29pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

What racist argument am I 'pouting'?

Well, I never said you were "pouting" anything. I said that I "put" (obvious typo) your racist argument to the sword.

If you want to know what racist argument that was, just go back and read the post I was responding to. It's right there in your own words.

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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hedgehog50 Croydon 26 Sep 17 3.31pm
Originally posted by Ray in Houston Well, I never said you were "pouting" anything. I said that I "put" (obvious typo) your racist argument to the sword. If you want to know what racist argument that was, just go back and read the post I was responding to. It's right there in your own words. Which words? I can't see that anything I have said is racist. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 26 Sep 17 3.31pm

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

Well, I never said you were "pouting" anything. I said that I "put" (obvious typo) your racist argument to the sword.

If you want to know what racist argument that was, just go back and read the post I was responding to. It's right there in your own words.

Which words? I can't see that anything I have said is racist.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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Hrolf The Ganger 26 Sep 17 3.32pm
Originally posted by Ray in Houston Black people in America are disproportionately poor. The poor in America are disproportionately likely to be involved in crime, either as perpetrator or victim. There is no notable difference between crime rates for poor whites as for poor blacks. The issue isn't race, the issue is poverty. [Link] As for the venue for the protest, the whole point of protesting is to do it in a place where it garners the most attention. For example, when right-wingers from all over the US wanted to protest the perceived erasure of their heritage, they didn't do it in their own homes or even home towns. They descended en masse upon a small town in Virginia and caused a bit of an uproar by carrying Nazi flags, chanting Nazi slogans, throwing Nazi salutes and killing one person while injuring a number of other by driving a car into a crowd. Against that, taking a knee during a song doesn't seem so extreme, does it? Edited by Ray in Houston (26 Sep 2017 3.08pm) A massive oversimplification. Criminality is a culture in some communities and is encouraged. Gang culture in endemic among some minority populations. Poverty is a factor but by no means the end of the story. Oh yeah, and sport and politics don't mix.
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Hrolf The Ganger

26 Sep 17 3.32pm

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Originally posted by Ray in Houston

Black people in America are disproportionately poor. The poor in America are disproportionately likely to be involved in crime, either as perpetrator or victim. There is no notable difference between crime rates for poor whites as for poor blacks.

The issue isn't race, the issue is poverty. [Link]

As for the venue for the protest, the whole point of protesting is to do it in a place where it garners the most attention. For example, when right-wingers from all over the US wanted to protest the perceived erasure of their heritage, they didn't do it in their own homes or even home towns. They descended en masse upon a small town in Virginia and caused a bit of an uproar by carrying Nazi flags, chanting Nazi slogans, throwing Nazi salutes and killing one person while injuring a number of other by driving a car into a crowd.

Against that, taking a knee during a song doesn't seem so extreme, does it?

Edited by Ray in Houston (26 Sep 2017 3.08pm)

A massive oversimplification.

Criminality is a culture in some communities and is encouraged. Gang culture in endemic among some minority populations.
Poverty is a factor but by no means the end of the story.

Oh yeah, and sport and politics don't mix.

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Stuk Top half 26 Sep 17 3.33pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 Is this serious? People of colour put dark colours on their face to see the ball better! I always thought American Football was a bit of a joke, this just confirms it. Edited by hedgehog50 (26 Sep 2017 3.26pm) Yes. It's got nothing to do with what colour you are, and it works. It started in baseball with Babe Ruth believed to be one of, if not, the first to do it. Optimistic as ever
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Stuk

Top half 26 Sep 17 3.33pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Is this serious? People of colour put dark colours on their face to see the ball better! I always thought American Football was a bit of a joke, this just confirms it.

Edited by hedgehog50 (26 Sep 2017 3.26pm)

Yes. It's got nothing to do with what colour you are, and it works.

It started in baseball with Babe Ruth believed to be one of, if not, the first to do it.

Optimistic as ever

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jamiemartin721 Reading 26 Sep 17 3.35pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger You are exibiting bias in this instance and ignoring my point entirely. Trump is the President. He can say what he likes if he considers it appropriate because he is an elected politician. Freedom of speech is a privilege that should not be abused by those who just happen to have mass exposure. Everyone is entitled to voice an opinion but not to take advantage of their position for political gain. So not freedom of speech then. Exactly how much political can did those individuals have> Its worth remembering that many were taking solidarity with other sports. The values of a democratic society include protest and the use of position to raise issues. Its not abused if you're making a political statement especially on behalf of others, in fact its iconic, thanks to Jesse Owens circa 1936. I commend people who put their own well being and personal gain, at risk, for something they believe. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 26 Sep 17 3.35pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

You are exibiting bias in this instance and ignoring my point entirely.

Trump is the President. He can say what he likes if he considers it appropriate because he is an elected politician.
Freedom of speech is a privilege that should not be abused by those who just happen to have mass exposure. Everyone is entitled to voice an opinion but not to take advantage of their position for political gain.

So not freedom of speech then. Exactly how much political can did those individuals have> Its worth remembering that many were taking solidarity with other sports.

The values of a democratic society include protest and the use of position to raise issues. Its not abused if you're making a political statement especially on behalf of others, in fact its iconic, thanks to Jesse Owens circa 1936.

I commend people who put their own well being and personal gain, at risk, for something they believe.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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