Press Conference Re-Scheduled (is that a bad sign?

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bexleydave Barnehurst 08 Sep 17 3.53pm
Originally posted by Kingsov To the experts on FdB's record as Ajax Amsterdam Manager and the so-called easy and worthless Career as a Manager after a glittering world renown career as a Player. To Quote 'Ajax Amsterdam - Wikipedia' In 2010, Frank de Boer was appointed manager of Ajax and led the club to its first league title in seven years, and record 30th title overall, in the 2010–11 season. This was followed by back-to-back wins in 2011–12 and 2012–13 to match his three consecutive titles as a player in the 1990s. In 2013–14, Ajax were again Eredivisie champions, winning four consecutive league titles for the first time in the club's history.After finishing as runner-up to PSV in both 2014–15 and 2015–16, De Boer stepped down as Ajax head coach in May 2016. This may go partly to explain why Steve Parish and the Board first elected to sign FdB as Crystal Palace Manager. It doesn't take into account the inferior nature of that league or that Ajax are a very big fish in that pond, plus as Willo said, he did go somewhat off the boil in his penultimate season. It doesn't address why his time at Inter was so poor and it doesn't explain why, having played in and managed with a 4-3-3 system his entire career, he'd suddenly set himself up a 3-4-3 exponent, especially when it's patently obvious that it isn't working and he doesn't have the players for it. Bexley Dave Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing! "The most arrogant, obnoxious bunch of deluded little sun tanned, loafer wearing mummy's boys I've ever had the misfortune of having to listen to" (Burnley forum)
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bexleydave

Barnehurst 08 Sep 17 3.53pm

Originally posted by Kingsov

To the experts on FdB's record as Ajax Amsterdam Manager and the so-called easy and worthless Career as a Manager after a glittering world renown career as a Player.

To Quote 'Ajax Amsterdam - Wikipedia'

In 2010, Frank de Boer was appointed manager of Ajax and led the club to its first league title in seven years, and record 30th title overall, in the 2010–11 season. This was followed by back-to-back wins in 2011–12 and 2012–13 to match his three consecutive titles as a player in the 1990s. In 2013–14, Ajax were again Eredivisie champions, winning four consecutive league titles for the first time in the club's history.After finishing as runner-up to PSV in both 2014–15 and 2015–16, De Boer stepped down as Ajax head coach in May 2016.

This may go partly to explain why Steve Parish and the Board first elected to sign FdB as Crystal Palace Manager.

It doesn't take into account the inferior nature of that league or that Ajax are a very big fish in that pond, plus as Willo said, he did go somewhat off the boil in his penultimate season. It doesn't address why his time at Inter was so poor and it doesn't explain why, having played in and managed with a 4-3-3 system his entire career, he'd suddenly set himself up a 3-4-3 exponent, especially when it's patently obvious that it isn't working and he doesn't have the players for it.

Bexley Dave

Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing!

"The most arrogant, obnoxious bunch of deluded little sun tanned, loafer wearing mummy's boys I've ever had the misfortune of having to listen to" (Burnley forum)

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 08 Sep 17 3.59pm
Originally posted by bexleydave It doesn't take into account the inferior nature of that league or that Ajax are a very big fish in that pond, plus as Willo said, he did go somewhat off the boil in his penultimate season. It doesn't address why his time at Inter was so poor and it doesn't explain why, having played in and managed with a 4-3-3 system his entire career, he'd suddenly set himself up a 3-4-3 exponent, especially when it's patently obvious that it isn't working and he doesn't have the players for it. Yes good points in terms of Ajax. What I was saying (Perhaps not very well !) was that whislt I recognise the fact that Ajax hadn't won the Eredivise for 7 years before he arrived and then they won it 4 years in succession, all those title wins should be taken in context.
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 08 Sep 17 3.59pm

Originally posted by bexleydave

Yes good points in terms of Ajax.

What I was saying (Perhaps not very well !) was that whislt I recognise the fact that Ajax hadn't won the Eredivise for 7 years before he arrived and then they won it 4 years in succession, all those title wins should be taken in context.

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 08 Sep 17 5.02pm
Originally posted by majorkaios What absolute garbage. Frank played all pre season 3-4-3 and 3 matches with 3 at the back, completely ignoring the limitations of ward, which you seem stubborn with too. It's not just fitness. You tell me how good ward is with nobody to pass to on the outside? OK Rudi no probs The way I think Frank wants to play that style of football, is for a player in possession at the back or in the center to draw a player from the opposition into a one on one when there is no one to pass to thereby creating the space that will make the pass without having to actually dribble but if confident dribble and create the space. You tell me why PVA hasn't turned out with the ball towards the touch line once this season? As the ball advances up the field the idea is to narrow the opposition thus giving an opportunity for the wings to then stretch the defense, by fast short one touch play taking the ball up the field. You tell me why all of the CB's are rabbit in the headlights as a back 3, mistakes all over the shop and one on ones in both halves v Huddersfield. 3 maybe 4 out of the defenders on our books before Sackho are just not up to the job anymore, which just creates problems. Sorry to say, love them, but it's time to start giving way to the youth. You tell me why Luka is half the player he was in a 2 man midfield? They (the mids) need to get closer to each other and to give each other more support thereby creating the short fluid passing game and narrowing the opposition. You tell me if Benteke isn't isolated? He is used to being the target man, and needs to run about a bit more to create the passing spaces. That AM or wings can find easily. It's no longer a straight dash goalwards game every time sometimes yes, of course, anything to get a goal. You tell me if the play is so slow that every attack is v 11 behind the ball? Yes, that sadly does take time, it's like a band that plays music, they are going to sound sluggish even virtuoso orchestras need to rehearse. The team needs to address the one touch play better. And the most laughable of all, you tell me why you think ward is going to be able to play as a wing back when his best football has been in a 4 when safety before attack is the main message? And ward is nearing the latter years of his career. Young legs, Spring chicken he isn't. Old dog and new tricks for a usual back 4 RB is what he is. It is laughable indeed at your conclusion since [I believe] he was only there mainly because of injuries, lateness etc. The first game was an experiment true, but then the injuries set in. Didn't Frank say only 3-4-3? Well he bl33ding well did, did he not? No thats a total misquote, or bad TV edit, he never stated only 3-4-3. Its always 3-4-3, 4-3-3, and 3-5-1 as primary settings of Total football. In fact a recent interview I recall, maybe after the swans game He re-iterated that very misquote. Still time but it'll be to save his neck first. This pipe dream is months and possibly more Windows away. Yes, I do acknowledge it's a pipe dream pie in the sky rubbish in your view. I've been following Ajax as my only foreign team, If you don't count Hearts (for personal reasons) since the days when the Crystal Palace Kit was like the Ajax style sash, ours Red and blue. Waiting for that big Academy in the sky to come down to the Palace before any other South London Team does and realises the massive potential in the demography. Hopefully, before the big sky comes down on me and eventually takes me away. It's a business model that has worked for many, Southampton the most consistently, I don't want local kids to be slaves to breeder academies like Chelski with their 57 and counting loanees. I hope Parish has the courage to finish what he started and keeps Frank on for a few windows, at least we both agree it's gonna take that to get there. Have a good day God, where do I start? Okay, in order: Re: Our players drawing other players towards them to leave a space or player to pass to. Have you watched much prem football recently or too much of Ajax? When well organised teams press the ball they press not only the man in possession but the other players as well. The shape of this resembles a flattened red arrows formation. See Leicester last season or any well instructed team this season. This is a rapid league, not Holland. With regards to my mention of PVA not turning out with the ball: Do you know what that means? It means letting the ball roll onto his left foot and looking along the wing or just anywhere other than back to CB's. I knw what you're talking about drawing teams narrow and then passing out wide, but how often does that happen when, as I've said, all our attacks are once the oppo is settled and all behind the ball? Re: My comment that our CB's are rabbit in the headlights in a 3 and you want to give way to youth. Good luck with that one. Youth across the defence. Sure to work. Re: My comment that Lua is half the player in a 2 man midfield. Your's that, 'They (the mids) need to get closer to each other and to give each other more support thereby creating the short fluid passing game and narrowing the opposition.' Have you got any idea what I'm talking about or Luka is about? Doesn't sound like it. Re: Benteke running about making passing spaces is a fair comment. However, see my comment regarding us attacking once they have 11 behind the ball. Slow slow slow. Sideways, backwards, sideways, backwards. The big criticism at Liverpool was they ignored 8 passing opportunites to Benteke before looking for that killer pass in the channel 12 yards out, which never came. Re: Ward was only there at RWB due to lateness and injuries. Okay. He hooks PVA in a 5, puts Chungy on and moves Ward to RB, so when he overlaps, nothing happens. Again it's slowed down. Re: Your comment, 'No thats a total misquote, or bad TV edit, he never stated only 3-4-3. Its always 3-4-3, 4-3-3, and 3-5-1 as primary settings of Total football. In fact a recent interview I recall, maybe after the swans game He re-iterated that very misquote.' I didn't say he did, but that's what he went bull into a china shop with. Please if you reply can you reply under the quote bracket. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 08 Sep 17 5.02pm

Originally posted by majorkaios

What absolute garbage. Frank played all pre season 3-4-3 and 3 matches with 3 at the back, completely ignoring the limitations of ward, which you seem stubborn with too.

It's not just fitness. You tell me how good ward is with nobody to pass to on the outside?

OK Rudi no probs The way I think Frank wants to play that style of football, is for a player in possession at the back or in the center to draw a player from the opposition into a one on one when there is no one to pass to thereby creating the space that will make the pass without having to actually dribble but if confident dribble and create the space.

You tell me why PVA hasn't turned out with the ball towards the touch line once this season?

As the ball advances up the field the idea is to narrow the opposition thus giving an opportunity for the wings to then stretch the defense, by fast short one touch play taking the ball up the field.

You tell me why all of the CB's are rabbit in the headlights as a back 3, mistakes all over the shop and one on ones in both halves v Huddersfield.

3 maybe 4 out of the defenders on our books before Sackho are just not up to the job anymore, which just creates problems. Sorry to say, love them, but it's time to start giving way to the youth.

You tell me why Luka is half the player he was in a 2 man midfield?

They (the mids) need to get closer to each other and to give each other more support thereby creating the short fluid passing game and narrowing the opposition.

You tell me if Benteke isn't isolated?

He is used to being the target man, and needs to run about a bit more to create the passing spaces. That AM or wings can find easily. It's no longer a straight dash goalwards game every time sometimes yes, of course, anything to get a goal.

You tell me if the play is so slow that every attack is v 11 behind the ball?

Yes, that sadly does take time, it's like a band that plays music, they are going to sound sluggish even virtuoso orchestras need to rehearse. The team needs to address the one touch play better.

And the most laughable of all, you tell me why you think ward is going to be able to play as a wing back when his best football has been in a 4 when safety before attack is the main message? And ward is nearing the latter years of his career. Young legs, Spring chicken he isn't. Old dog and new tricks for a usual back 4 RB is what he is.

It is laughable indeed at your conclusion since [I believe] he was only there mainly because of injuries, lateness etc. The first game was an experiment true, but then the injuries set in.

Didn't Frank say only 3-4-3? Well he bl33ding well did, did he not?

No thats a total misquote, or bad TV edit, he never stated only 3-4-3. Its always 3-4-3, 4-3-3, and 3-5-1 as primary settings of Total football. In fact a recent interview I recall, maybe after the swans game He re-iterated that very misquote.

Still time but it'll be to save his neck first. This pipe dream is months and possibly more Windows away.

Yes, I do acknowledge it's a pipe dream pie in the sky rubbish in your view.

I've been following Ajax as my only foreign team, If you don't count Hearts (for personal reasons) since the days when the Crystal Palace Kit was like the Ajax style sash, ours Red and blue. Waiting for that big Academy in the sky to come down to the Palace before any other South London Team does and realises the massive potential in the demography. Hopefully, before the big sky comes down on me and eventually takes me away.

It's a business model that has worked for many, Southampton the most consistently, I don't want local kids to be slaves to breeder academies like Chelski with their 57 and counting loanees. I hope Parish has the courage to finish what he started and keeps Frank on for a few windows, at least we both agree it's gonna take that to get there.

Have a good day

God, where do I start?

Okay, in order:

Re: Our players drawing other players towards them to leave a space or player to pass to. Have you watched much prem football recently or too much of Ajax? When well organised teams press the ball they press not only the man in possession but the other players as well. The shape of this resembles a flattened red arrows formation. See Leicester last season or any well instructed team this season. This is a rapid league, not Holland.

With regards to my mention of PVA not turning out with the ball: Do you know what that means? It means letting the ball roll onto his left foot and looking along the wing or just anywhere other than back to CB's. I knw what you're talking about drawing teams narrow and then passing out wide, but how often does that happen when, as I've said, all our attacks are once the oppo is settled and all behind the ball?

Re: My comment that our CB's are rabbit in the headlights in a 3 and you want to give way to youth. Good luck with that one. Youth across the defence. Sure to work.

Re: My comment that Lua is half the player in a 2 man midfield. Your's that, 'They (the mids) need to get closer to each other and to give each other more support thereby creating the short fluid passing game and narrowing the opposition.' Have you got any idea what I'm talking about or Luka is about? Doesn't sound like it.

Re: Benteke running about making passing spaces is a fair comment. However, see my comment regarding us attacking once they have 11 behind the ball. Slow slow slow. Sideways, backwards, sideways, backwards. The big criticism at Liverpool was they ignored 8 passing opportunites to Benteke before looking for that killer pass in the channel 12 yards out, which never came.

Re: Ward was only there at RWB due to lateness and injuries. Okay. He hooks PVA in a 5, puts Chungy on and moves Ward to RB, so when he overlaps, nothing happens. Again it's slowed down.

Re: Your comment, 'No thats a total misquote, or bad TV edit, he never stated only 3-4-3. Its always 3-4-3, 4-3-3, and 3-5-1 as primary settings of Total football. In fact a recent interview I recall, maybe after the swans game He re-iterated that very misquote.' I didn't say he did, but that's what he went bull into a china shop with.

Please if you reply can you reply under the quote bracket.

COYP

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 08 Sep 17 5.15pm
Originally posted by TrickyBoy There are some great managerial insights throughout this thread and people far more tactically intelligent that me but .... With a striker with so much potential as Benteke, would you not just come up with a system that feeds balls non stop to him. It must be so frustrating for him. Give him balls into the box constantly and a player off him to get knock downs. Im sure hed love to end the game knackered. Just my two cents but he is class but not if he gets nothing to work with. So he missed chance at Liverpool but thats about all hes had in 3 games. This is the error Liverpool made with him when Klopp took over but the difference is with Liverpool building a style as soon as the manager wishes, they know they're going to be in the league the next season and can acquire a striker and player or 2 or 3 or 4 to slot into the system. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 08 Sep 17 5.15pm

Originally posted by TrickyBoy

There are some great managerial insights throughout this thread and people far more tactically intelligent that me but ....

With a striker with so much potential as Benteke, would you not just come up with a system that feeds balls non stop to him. It must be so frustrating for him. Give him balls into the box constantly and a player off him to get knock downs. Im sure hed love to end the game knackered.

Just my two cents but he is class but not if he gets nothing to work with. So he missed chance at Liverpool but thats about all hes had in 3 games.

This is the error Liverpool made with him when Klopp took over but the difference is with Liverpool building a style as soon as the manager wishes, they know they're going to be in the league the next season and can acquire a striker and player or 2 or 3 or 4 to slot into the system.

COYP

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Tommyp151211 08 Sep 17 5.28pm
I couldn't care less if Benteke only runs 4 metres in 90 minutes. If we put the ball in the right areas then he'll score 20 goals.
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Tommyp151211

08 Sep 17 5.28pm

I couldn't care less if Benteke only runs 4 metres in 90 minutes.

If we put the ball in the right areas then he'll score 20 goals.

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rikz Croydon 08 Sep 17 5.36pm
Not good enough to play 343 so drop the players and give the kids a chance, what a suggestion that is, how about just going to 4 at the back and leaving our centre backs in the middle not constantly worrying about the wing backs getting caught out and looking like lemons when they don't know when to track the runner or go wide, that would be too easy.
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rikz

Croydon 08 Sep 17 5.36pm

Not good enough to play 343 so drop the players and give the kids a chance, what a suggestion that is, how about just going to 4 at the back and leaving our centre backs in the middle not constantly worrying about the wing backs getting caught out and looking like lemons when they don't know when to track the runner or go wide, that would be too easy.

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Mstrobez 08 Sep 17 6.11pm
Despite any opinions on him or his tactics, I'd say Frank held himself very well in that press conference, good on him. Personally at the end of it all I think he deserves time. We're the Arthur over ere!
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Mstrobez

08 Sep 17 6.11pm

Despite any opinions on him or his tactics, I'd say Frank held himself very well in that press conference, good on him. Personally at the end of it all I think he deserves time.

We're the Arthur over ere!

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Tommyp151211 08 Sep 17 6.19pm
Originally posted by Mstrobez Despite any opinions on him or his tactics, I'd say Frank held himself very well in that press conference, good on him. Personally at the end of it all I think he deserves time. Agree 100% Thought he was excellent.
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Tommyp151211

08 Sep 17 6.19pm

Originally posted by Mstrobez

Despite any opinions on him or his tactics, I'd say Frank held himself very well in that press conference, good on him. Personally at the end of it all I think he deserves time.

Agree 100%

Thought he was excellent.

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Diagonal 08 Sep 17 8.31pm
Originally posted by Tommyp151211 Agree 100% Thought he was excellent. Me too. That's the most expressive I've seen him and it was a tonic. If only it were White, rather than Yellow!
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Diagonal

08 Sep 17 8.31pm

Originally posted by Tommyp151211

Agree 100%

Thought he was excellent.

Me too. That's the most expressive I've seen him and it was a tonic.

If only it were White, rather than Yellow!

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coulsdoneagle London 08 Sep 17 8.37pm
For me it's simple. Lose at Burnley and he is gone. Play three at the back and fail to win and he is gone.
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coulsdoneagle

London 08 Sep 17 8.37pm

For me it's simple. Lose at Burnley and he is gone. Play three at the back and fail to win and he is gone.

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Rachid Rachid Rachid 08 Sep 17 8.42pm
Originally posted by est1905 The issue is as Sam Allardyce said yesterday. Almost word for word: 'It has nothing to do with systems and formations, they are creating enough chances but not putting them away. But the real issue is individually and collectively they are not defending correctly' Over thought tactics may not be helping but this is the guts of it. If I were SP I wouldn't be trying to tell a football man such as FDB how to play and what formation. More that I expect to see a team that doesn't look like they're going to concede every time they lose the ball. Moving the ball up pitch quicker, better organisation from set pieces and a few crosses would be a bonus. Formation etc may be part of the problem but not all IMO.
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Rachid Rachid Rachid

08 Sep 17 8.42pm

Send a Private Message to Rachid Rachid Rachid

Originally posted by est1905

The issue is as Sam Allardyce said yesterday. Almost word for word: 'It has nothing to do with systems and formations, they are creating enough chances but not putting them away. But the real issue is individually and collectively they are not defending correctly'

Over thought tactics may not be helping but this is the guts of it.

If I were SP I wouldn't be trying to tell a football man such as FDB how to play and what formation.

More that I expect to see a team that doesn't look like they're going to concede every time they lose the ball.

Moving the ball up pitch quicker, better organisation from set pieces and a few crosses would be a bonus.

Formation etc may be part of the problem but not all IMO.

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Goldfiinger Just down the road 08 Sep 17 8.43pm
Still don't think he should get to much stick for playing a different formation for only one half against two lower half teams. Obviously he now needs to get points on the board, but if he wasn't gonna try it against them then when was he. Hindsight would say once we have 40 points on the board or never. But let's keep a bit of perspective it was only tried in two halfs. If Kelly had scored against Swans instead of then gifting them a goal. It's been 1-1 with us playing the better football in our favoured formation. A tad of perspective and calm is needed. I still hope he learns and does well for us. The formation hasn't helped our fragile defenders whom seem to still be empty of confidence. Last time I saw that change was after we signed Sakho so hopefully that'll help again. Its been a baptism of fire for Frank I hope he rises to the challenge, I'd much rather the club succeed with De Boer than Roy. Edited by Goldfiinger (08 Sep 2017 8.51pm)
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Goldfiinger

Just down the road 08 Sep 17 8.43pm

Still don't think he should get to much stick for playing a different formation for only one half against two lower half teams.

Obviously he now needs to get points on the board, but if he wasn't gonna try it against them then when was he. Hindsight would say once we have 40 points on the board or never. But let's keep a bit of perspective it was only tried in two halfs. If Kelly had scored against Swans instead of then gifting them a goal. It's been 1-1 with us playing the better football in our favoured formation.

A tad of perspective and calm is needed.

I still hope he learns and does well for us.

The formation hasn't helped our fragile defenders whom seem to still be empty of confidence. Last time I saw that change was after we signed Sakho so hopefully that'll help again.

Its been a baptism of fire for Frank I hope he rises to the challenge, I'd much rather the club succeed with De Boer than Roy.

Edited by Goldfiinger (08 Sep 2017 8.51pm)

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