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Muhammad Ali

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 09 Jun 16 2.18pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

It is reasonable to say that it is not surprising that he was racist toward white people because of the discrimination that existed at the time. It is a totally different argument to say that he "wasn't very racist" because he associated with whites or that at the same time supported and voiced racist ideology.

By that reckoning one could argue that someone is not very racist to dislike black people because in their town more street crime is committed by black people than is proportionate to the population.

You can have one way of thinking or the other but not both.
You can perhaps argue that racism is understandable in certain circumstances but not acceptable, unless it is acceptable for all.
Fighting oppression, suppression or segregation does not have to involve racism. Non whites do all three to each other all over the world. The fact that most ruling class Americans happened to be white is insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Ali's slave ancestors were probably sold to white slave traders by black slave traders.
If we are going to uphold ideologies then you have to be be true to them no matter what or they lose credibility.

Racism is never acceptable, but it can be understandable and even inevitable. MLK should be celebrated for rising above that, but in doing so, he got a lot of people, white and black, killed, arrested and injured.

Also, if you experience crime at say the hands of a black person, I think its understandable to be affected by the racial aspect. Its not right, and ideally something that should be redressed, but its understandable. Same as women being 'cautious' around men, we as men should understand, that their experience of sexual politics can be very radically different, and the experience of harassment, sexual violence etc is very different.

We can only really try to overcome fear and prejudices by understanding why and how they manifest within us, and why other people may or may not fear us - collectively - and in doing so, resolve to personally try to set aside those misconceptions and deal with the problems that generate these stereotypes.

But its probably more significant that the 'dominant' social power group makes the most significant 'sacrifices' first and listen to the issues that create that prejudice against us; and try to resolve those issues. In doing so, its generally the case that prejudice on both sides is reduced.

 


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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 09 Jun 16 3.00pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Racism is never acceptable, but it can be understandable and even inevitable. MLK should be celebrated for rising above that, but in doing so, he got a lot of people, white and black, killed, arrested and injured.

Also, if you experience crime at say the hands of a black person, I think its understandable to be affected by the racial aspect. Its not right, and ideally something that should be redressed, but its understandable. Same as women being 'cautious' around men, we as men should understand, that their experience of sexual politics can be very radically different, and the experience of harassment, sexual violence etc is very different.

We can only really try to overcome fear and prejudices by understanding why and how they manifest within us, and why other people may or may not fear us - collectively - and in doing so, resolve to personally try to set aside those misconceptions and deal with the problems that generate these stereotypes.

But its probably more significant that the 'dominant' social power group makes the most significant 'sacrifices' first and listen to the issues that create that prejudice against us; and try to resolve those issues. In doing so, its generally the case that prejudice on both sides is reduced.

And I think it is clear that this has happened and is happening.
However, the principle by which we have arrive at this enlightened era cannot be bent to suit a particular situation, person or persons.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (09 Jun 2016 3.01pm)

 

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Stirlingsays Flag 09 Jun 16 7.35pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Racism is never acceptable, but it can be understandable and even inevitable. MLK should be celebrated for rising above that, but in doing so, he got a lot of people, white and black, killed, arrested and injured.

Also, if you experience crime at say the hands of a black person, I think its understandable to be affected by the racial aspect. Its not right, and ideally something that should be redressed, but its understandable. Same as women being 'cautious' around men, we as men should understand, that their experience of sexual politics can be very radically different, and the experience of harassment, sexual violence etc is very different.

We can only really try to overcome fear and prejudices by understanding why and how they manifest within us, and why other people may or may not fear us - collectively - and in doing so, resolve to personally try to set aside those misconceptions and deal with the problems that generate these stereotypes.

But its probably more significant that the 'dominant' social power group makes the most significant 'sacrifices' first and listen to the issues that create that prejudice against us; and try to resolve those issues. In doing so, its generally the case that prejudice on both sides is reduced.

'Dominant social power group'? So that's what I'm in then?....Funny that my line manager at the school I work in is a Muslim.

Deliberately treating people differently because of their skin colour is a problem. Principles should stand as principles....I find the notion of understandable racism to be nonsense.....It is a failure of human character whatever a person's skin tone or social standing. Acceptable racism from minorities has been a mainstay feature of left wing thinking in this country for decades and it has encouraged confused attitudes and compounded problems with social cohesion problems for many years.

Then again many people want to turn this country into a land with no fixed identity, where loyalty is purely a fiscal or advantage matter. The kind of land that few will fight for.


Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Jun 2016 7.40pm)

 


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blackpalacefan Flag 18 Jun 16 12.32am Send a Private Message to blackpalacefan Add blackpalacefan as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

'Dominant social power group'? So that's what I'm in then?....Funny that my line manager at the school I work in is a Muslim.

Deliberately treating people differently because of their skin colour is a problem. Principles should stand as principles....I find the notion of understandable racism to be nonsense.....It is a failure of human character whatever a person's skin tone or social standing. Acceptable racism from minorities has been a mainstay feature of left wing thinking in this country for decades and it has encouraged confused attitudes and compounded problems with social cohesion problems for many years.

Then again many people want to turn this country into a land with no fixed identity, where loyalty is purely a fiscal or advantage matter. The kind of land that few will fight for.


Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Jun 2016 7.40pm)

not to be churlish but he means which groups hold most power and influence in society at large not who happens to run the local chippy or b&b

Edited by blackpalacefan (18 Jun 2016 10.17am)

 

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