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War plane shot down over Turkey
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jamiemartin721  Reading 27 Nov 15 12.52pm |
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Quote Cucking Funt at 27 Nov 2015 11.13am
Do you really think it'll make a sh*t of difference whether the UK bombs ISIS or not? I think its utterly irrelevant, I'd be amazed if there was really anything worth bombing of IS in Syria or Iraq, given the number of US missions flown (in fact we have been running bombing missions in Syria for nearly a year, under US command, as that gets around the issue). The UK is already an IS target, as its been bombing IS in Iraq for the last year. Whether we target Syria as well makes no difference to them or us. Its really only a mater of time, until some group succeeds here with an attack. I doubt there is any short or long term gain from 'bombing IS' in Syria, other than political machoismo and one up man ship of being seen to do something, even if its detrimental (and there is no real argument that the PM stance will actually improve something). It certainly can't succeed in any real objective, and really its best outcome is 'it won't make things worse'. I think its really all about 'appealing to the public outrage' rather than resolving the problem. Its certainly something that's been scheduled to take advantage of the attacks in Paris to advance the PM agenda. The only real concern is whether its actually worth it in any real sense. It won't protect the UK, it won't make us more of a target, it won't stop IS and it probably won't make much difference in terms of recruitment or sympathisers. Sooner or later the UK will suffer an attack, because we've been at engaged against them for over a year I think, possibly 18 months. Edited by jamiemartin721 (27 Nov 2015 12.57pm)
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 Y Ddraig Goch  In The Crowd 27 Nov 15 1.01pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 27 Nov 2015 12.52pm
Quote Cucking Funt at 27 Nov 2015 11.13am
Do you really think it'll make a sh*t of difference whether the UK bombs ISIS or not? I think its utterly irrelevant, I'd be amazed if there was really anything worth bombing of IS in Syria or Iraq, given the number of US missions flown (in fact we have been running bombing missions in Syria for nearly a year, under US command, as that gets around the issue). The UK is already an IS target, as its been bombing IS in Iraq for the last year. Whether we target Syria as well makes no difference to them or us. Its really only a mater of time, until some group succeeds here with an attack. I doubt there is any short or long term gain from 'bombing IS' in Syria, other than political machoismo and one up man ship of being seen to do something, even if its detrimental (and there is no real argument that the PM stance will actually improve something). It certainly can't succeed in any real objective, and really its best outcome is 'it won't make things worse'. I think its really all about 'appealing to the public outrage' rather than resolving the problem. Its certainly something that's been scheduled to take advantage of the attacks in Paris to advance the PM agenda. The only real concern is whether its actually worth it in any real sense. It won't protect the UK, it won't make us more of a target, it won't stop IS and it probably won't make much difference in terms of recruitment or sympathisers. Sooner or later the UK will suffer an attack, because we've been at engaged against them for over a year I think, possibly 18 months. Edited by jamiemartin721 (27 Nov 2015 12.57pm)
You could end up with a smaller Syria, a Kurdish state and even the Turks expanding their border. A cohesive bombing campaign support ground offenses would make a significant difference. the key word is cohesive
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Seth  On a pale blue dot 27 Nov 15 1.40pm |
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Why Daesh want us to bomb them: I know Isis fighters. Western bombs falling on Raqqa will fill them with joy Since the Paris attacks, western politicians have been walking open-eyed into a trap set by the terrorists – just like they did after 9/11. They retaliate with bombs, even though bombs are one of the main reasons why we are facing terrorism in the first place: because bombs predominantly kill innocent people, and thus help to create fresh recruits for the terrorist cause. As I learned from spending time interviewing Islamic State members in Syria and northern Iraq, George W Bush’s “war on terror” turned out to be a classic terrorist recruitment programme of this kind. In 2001 there were roughly a couple of hundred terrorists in the mountains of the Hindu Kush who posed a threat to the international community. Now, after the war on terror has claimed what some estimate to be as many as one million Iraqi lives, we are facing some 100,000 terrorists. Isis was created six months after the start of the invasion: it is Bush’s baby. How can it be that leading politicians learned nothing from 14 years of counterproductive anti-terror wars? How can it be that they still believe that the best way to get rid of an infestation of wasps is to batter the nests with a sledgehammer?
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| Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 27 Nov 15 1.45pm |
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Quote Seth at 27 Nov 2015 1.40pm
Why Daesh want us to bomb them: I know Isis fighters. Western bombs falling on Raqqa will fill them with joy Since the Paris attacks, western politicians have been walking open-eyed into a trap set by the terrorists – just like they did after 9/11. They retaliate with bombs, even though bombs are one of the main reasons why we are facing terrorism in the first place: because bombs predominantly kill innocent people, and thus help to create fresh recruits for the terrorist cause. As I learned from spending time interviewing Islamic State members in Syria and northern Iraq, George W Bush’s “war on terror” turned out to be a classic terrorist recruitment programme of this kind. In 2001 there were roughly a couple of hundred terrorists in the mountains of the Hindu Kush who posed a threat to the international community. Now, after the war on terror has claimed what some estimate to be as many as one million Iraqi lives, we are facing some 100,000 terrorists. Isis was created six months after the start of the invasion: it is Bush’s baby. How can it be that leading politicians learned nothing from 14 years of counterproductive anti-terror wars? How can it be that they still believe that the best way to get rid of an infestation of wasps is to batter the nests with a sledgehammer?
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| Seth On a pale blue dot 27 Nov 15 1.52pm |
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Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 27 Nov 2015 1.45pm
Quote Seth at 27 Nov 2015 1.40pm
Why Daesh want us to bomb them: I know Isis fighters. Western bombs falling on Raqqa will fill them with joy Since the Paris attacks, western politicians have been walking open-eyed into a trap set by the terrorists – just like they did after 9/11. They retaliate with bombs, even though bombs are one of the main reasons why we are facing terrorism in the first place: because bombs predominantly kill innocent people, and thus help to create fresh recruits for the terrorist cause. As I learned from spending time interviewing Islamic State members in Syria and northern Iraq, George W Bush’s “war on terror” turned out to be a classic terrorist recruitment programme of this kind. In 2001 there were roughly a couple of hundred terrorists in the mountains of the Hindu Kush who posed a threat to the international community. Now, after the war on terror has claimed what some estimate to be as many as one million Iraqi lives, we are facing some 100,000 terrorists. Isis was created six months after the start of the invasion: it is Bush’s baby. How can it be that leading politicians learned nothing from 14 years of counterproductive anti-terror wars? How can it be that they still believe that the best way to get rid of an infestation of wasps is to batter the nests with a sledgehammer?
Alternative to what? Bombing or not bombing?
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| Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 27 Nov 15 1.55pm |
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Quote Seth at 27 Nov 2015 1.52pm
Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 27 Nov 2015 1.45pm
Quote Seth at 27 Nov 2015 1.40pm
Why Daesh want us to bomb them: I know Isis fighters. Western bombs falling on Raqqa will fill them with joy Since the Paris attacks, western politicians have been walking open-eyed into a trap set by the terrorists – just like they did after 9/11. They retaliate with bombs, even though bombs are one of the main reasons why we are facing terrorism in the first place: because bombs predominantly kill innocent people, and thus help to create fresh recruits for the terrorist cause. As I learned from spending time interviewing Islamic State members in Syria and northern Iraq, George W Bush’s “war on terror” turned out to be a classic terrorist recruitment programme of this kind. In 2001 there were roughly a couple of hundred terrorists in the mountains of the Hindu Kush who posed a threat to the international community. Now, after the war on terror has claimed what some estimate to be as many as one million Iraqi lives, we are facing some 100,000 terrorists. Isis was created six months after the start of the invasion: it is Bush’s baby. How can it be that leading politicians learned nothing from 14 years of counterproductive anti-terror wars? How can it be that they still believe that the best way to get rid of an infestation of wasps is to batter the nests with a sledgehammer?
Alternative to what? Bombing or not bombing? Alternative to bombing
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 27 Nov 15 2.05pm |
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Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 27 Nov 2015 1.45pm
Quote Seth at 27 Nov 2015 1.40pm
Why Daesh want us to bomb them: I know Isis fighters. Western bombs falling on Raqqa will fill them with joy Since the Paris attacks, western politicians have been walking open-eyed into a trap set by the terrorists – just like they did after 9/11. They retaliate with bombs, even though bombs are one of the main reasons why we are facing terrorism in the first place: because bombs predominantly kill innocent people, and thus help to create fresh recruits for the terrorist cause. As I learned from spending time interviewing Islamic State members in Syria and northern Iraq, George W Bush’s “war on terror” turned out to be a classic terrorist recruitment programme of this kind. In 2001 there were roughly a couple of hundred terrorists in the mountains of the Hindu Kush who posed a threat to the international community. Now, after the war on terror has claimed what some estimate to be as many as one million Iraqi lives, we are facing some 100,000 terrorists. Isis was created six months after the start of the invasion: it is Bush’s baby. How can it be that leading politicians learned nothing from 14 years of counterproductive anti-terror wars? How can it be that they still believe that the best way to get rid of an infestation of wasps is to batter the nests with a sledgehammer?
Destroy their oil fields and the people involved in the buying and selling of oil of smuggled oil? But allegedly that would involve the son of the Turkish leader, Japan, several major shipping companies in Europe and a number of our banks (as well as other parties). That's really what bombs are designed for targeting the enemies infrastructure and capacity to wage a war. Whats a bigger loss to IS, a few fighters or income of up to 3m per day, in US dollars, from the 'benefit' of black market oil trading.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 27 Nov 15 2.14pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 27 Nov 2015 2.05pm
Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 27 Nov 2015 1.45pm
Quote Seth at 27 Nov 2015 1.40pm
Why Daesh want us to bomb them: I know Isis fighters. Western bombs falling on Raqqa will fill them with joy Since the Paris attacks, western politicians have been walking open-eyed into a trap set by the terrorists – just like they did after 9/11. They retaliate with bombs, even though bombs are one of the main reasons why we are facing terrorism in the first place: because bombs predominantly kill innocent people, and thus help to create fresh recruits for the terrorist cause. As I learned from spending time interviewing Islamic State members in Syria and northern Iraq, George W Bush’s “war on terror” turned out to be a classic terrorist recruitment programme of this kind. In 2001 there were roughly a couple of hundred terrorists in the mountains of the Hindu Kush who posed a threat to the international community. Now, after the war on terror has claimed what some estimate to be as many as one million Iraqi lives, we are facing some 100,000 terrorists. Isis was created six months after the start of the invasion: it is Bush’s baby. How can it be that leading politicians learned nothing from 14 years of counterproductive anti-terror wars? How can it be that they still believe that the best way to get rid of an infestation of wasps is to batter the nests with a sledgehammer?
Destroy their oil fields and the people involved in the buying and selling of oil of smuggled oil? But allegedly that would involve the son of the Turkish leader, Japan, several major shipping companies in Europe and a number of our banks (as well as other parties). That's really what bombs are designed for targeting the enemies infrastructure and capacity to wage a war. Whats a bigger loss to IS, a few fighters or income of up to 3m per day, in US dollars, from the 'benefit' of black market oil trading. Syria is not a big oil producer. I think Syria is about 60th in the World in terms of oil production.
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nairb75  Baltimore 27 Nov 15 2.49pm |
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Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 27 Nov 2015 1.45pm
Quote Seth at 27 Nov 2015 1.40pm
Why Daesh want us to bomb them: I know Isis fighters. Western bombs falling on Raqqa will fill them with joy Since the Paris attacks, western politicians have been walking open-eyed into a trap set by the terrorists – just like they did after 9/11. They retaliate with bombs, even though bombs are one of the main reasons why we are facing terrorism in the first place: because bombs predominantly kill innocent people, and thus help to create fresh recruits for the terrorist cause. As I learned from spending time interviewing Islamic State members in Syria and northern Iraq, George W Bush’s “war on terror” turned out to be a classic terrorist recruitment programme of this kind. In 2001 there were roughly a couple of hundred terrorists in the mountains of the Hindu Kush who posed a threat to the international community. Now, after the war on terror has claimed what some estimate to be as many as one million Iraqi lives, we are facing some 100,000 terrorists. Isis was created six months after the start of the invasion: it is Bush’s baby. How can it be that leading politicians learned nothing from 14 years of counterproductive anti-terror wars? How can it be that they still believe that the best way to get rid of an infestation of wasps is to batter the nests with a sledgehammer?
boots on the ground. there is no way to get proper intelligence from the air. so we're going to bomb innocent people with some degree of regularity. i'm no fan of more wars but these guys aren't going to be negotiated away. it's war crimes of the highest order. we can bomb them away either. at some point, someone is going to have to go in and do dirty work. whether it's now or 5 years from now. may as well be now before they get bigger.
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| Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 27 Nov 15 2.50pm |
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Quote nairb75 at 27 Nov 2015 2.49pm
Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 27 Nov 2015 1.45pm
Quote Seth at 27 Nov 2015 1.40pm
Why Daesh want us to bomb them: I know Isis fighters. Western bombs falling on Raqqa will fill them with joy Since the Paris attacks, western politicians have been walking open-eyed into a trap set by the terrorists – just like they did after 9/11. They retaliate with bombs, even though bombs are one of the main reasons why we are facing terrorism in the first place: because bombs predominantly kill innocent people, and thus help to create fresh recruits for the terrorist cause. As I learned from spending time interviewing Islamic State members in Syria and northern Iraq, George W Bush’s “war on terror” turned out to be a classic terrorist recruitment programme of this kind. In 2001 there were roughly a couple of hundred terrorists in the mountains of the Hindu Kush who posed a threat to the international community. Now, after the war on terror has claimed what some estimate to be as many as one million Iraqi lives, we are facing some 100,000 terrorists. Isis was created six months after the start of the invasion: it is Bush’s baby. How can it be that leading politicians learned nothing from 14 years of counterproductive anti-terror wars? How can it be that they still believe that the best way to get rid of an infestation of wasps is to batter the nests with a sledgehammer?
boots on the ground. there is no way to get proper intelligence from the air. so we're going to bomb innocent people with some degree of regularity. i'm no fan of more wars but these guys aren't going to be negotiated away. it's war crimes of the highest order. we can bomb them away either. at some point, someone is going to have to go in and do dirty work. whether it's now or 5 years from now. may as well be now before they get bigger. There are boots on the ground. We shouldn't send ours (other than the "advisors" already there)
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 Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 27 Nov 15 2.57pm |
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The whole premise of ISIS' objectives is rooted in the so-called caliphate which involves the physical possession of territory. Bombing them is all well and good but it's the re-taking of the territory they currently occupy that's important. Whilst it may not be the key to ending this nonsense, it's a worthwhile goal.
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| DanH SW2 27 Nov 15 3.01pm |
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Quote Cucking Funt at 27 Nov 2015 2.57pm
The whole premise of ISIS' objectives is rooted in the so-called caliphate which involves the physical possession of territory. Bombing them is all well and good but it's the re-taking of the territory they currently occupy that's important. Whilst it may not be the key to ending this nonsense, it's a worthwhile goal.
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