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Tunisia Terrorism - It's time to get tough
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 Johnny Eagles  berlin 30 Jun 15 10.27am |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 26 Jun 2015 1.48pm
Quote martin2412 at 26 Jun 2015 1.45pm
We have to stop fannying about. We need to get in and start wiping this scum off the earth. Modern day Nazis, except now everyone who's not a muslim is a 'Jew' The problem is how do you do it? Drop nukes on Damascus, Baghdad, Jerusalem, Cairo and Tehran. It sorted the Japs out. You don't hear a peep out of them nowadays.
...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread... |
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dannyh  wherever I lay my hat....... 30 Jun 15 10.29am |
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Quote Johnny Eagles at 30 Jun 2015 10.27am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 26 Jun 2015 1.48pm
Quote martin2412 at 26 Jun 2015 1.45pm
We have to stop fannying about. We need to get in and start wiping this scum off the earth. Modern day Nazis, except now everyone who's not a muslim is a 'Jew' The problem is how do you do it? Drop nukes on Damascus, Baghdad, Jerusalem, Cairo and Tehran. It sorted the Japs out. You don't hear a peep out of them nowadays. You are the love child of Maggie and Norman Tebbit.
"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 30 Jun 15 10.36am |
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Quote TheJudge at 30 Jun 2015 10.13am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 30 Jun 2015 9.31am
Quote dannyh at 30 Jun 2015 8.42am
So you would allow someone who has through their own free, will gone to a country specifically to kill innocent people in the name of thier chosen sky fairy to come back to Britain abd carry on as normal ? No, I'd try them for Terrorist offences, as they have a universal jurisdiction, and if found guilty, send them to prison, or if more suitable to the country involved extradite them to stand trial in that country. Quote dannyh at 30 Jun 2015 8.42am
It's simple really, you let it be known clearly and without any doubt that ISIS fighters from the UK will not be allowed back into Britain, end of chat. Also you have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that a) they were in Syria b) they were part of IS. A lot of people are in Syria with NGO, aid workers and with non-IS rebel factions. Travelling overseas for the purpose of terrorism is a crime in the UK, with up to a life sentence. We should implement this, or deport them to stand trial in a country in which they have been involved in terrorism. Quote dannyh at 30 Jun 2015 8.42am
That in turn will (I imagine ) push Turkey away from thier "shrugg of the shoulders" attitude if they know that the last place they flew from is where they will be returned to. Turkey would then just put them on a plane back, refusing them entry, as they don't have Turkish citizenship. Turkey isn't really too fussed about IS as its focused against their enemy the Kurds. Quote dannyh at 30 Jun 2015 8.42am
f*** em. This I definitely agree with. I don't like them, but just refusing them entry to the UK, isn't an option.
Not saying that, I'm saying arrest the f**kers, try them, and send them to prison for the crimes they have committed (Terrorism is universal jurisdiction, so they can be tried anywhere), or specifically extradite them to stand trial elsewhere (notably where they have committed crimes). It also enables you to turn one or two of the less committed, to inform on others who they saw out there. I'm not sure how that translates as 'just let them back in and hope for the best'. Revoking citizenship, sounds good on rhetorical level and beats a good nationalist drum, but its utterly impractical, because you'd send them back to the country they came from and that country would just send them back to you. Plus you'd need to go through the process of revoking citizenship, which presumably would require reasonable evidence of fighting with IS (which is going to be tricky to prove). Not at all practical or workable
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 30 Jun 15 10.37am |
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Quote Johnny Eagles at 30 Jun 2015 10.27am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 26 Jun 2015 1.48pm
Quote martin2412 at 26 Jun 2015 1.45pm
We have to stop fannying about. We need to get in and start wiping this scum off the earth. Modern day Nazis, except now everyone who's not a muslim is a 'Jew' The problem is how do you do it? Drop nukes on Damascus, Baghdad, Jerusalem, Cairo and Tehran. It sorted the Japs out. You don't hear a peep out of them nowadays. Probably worth including Islamabad, Slough and Luton on that list.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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The Sash  Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 30 Jun 15 11.49am |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 29 Jun 2015 3.28pm
Quote The Sash at 29 Jun 2015 2.10pm
Quote dannyh at 28 Jun 2015 1.36pm
I think after events of this weekend IS should be talked about separately to Islam, whilst their religion is that of Islam it is clear that it is not a version followed by the majority of peaceful Muslims, one of LCpl's at work for example. Lets not forget at the same time British tourists were killed so were 30 odd Muslims blown to s*** in their own mosque in Kuwait. I will also admit that my initial reaction on here, was a bit knee jerk, but essentially the sentiment of ignore it and will go away, from the post I was commenting on, is the worst thing we can do, it will get worse if we dont do something. However the tolerance that is shown to Choudry and his ilk beggars belief, if I was to ask a copper to take off a wrist band and get shirty I would be arrested, but because he's a, a Muslim, and b, a dick head he gets away with it. My opinion, for a kick off, anyone who leaves this country to fight for IS never gets back in, and border control should mean that, control of our borders. Indeed Danno - totally agree with all of that. Especially the revoking of citizenship...born here or otherwise. What has bemused me of late is these stupid bints who decided they would like to take their children and live in a dark age culture and war zone and the rather blurry, happy clappy line about the police 'engaging with them' and being 'worried' about them - why ??? f*** em...they have made a choice - let them live with the consequences of it. I had experience of a muslim 'sect' over a number of years through the charity work they did. Big on tolerance and integration their main mosque in pakistan had the living s*** blasted out of it by AQ a few years back killing lots of the friends and relatives of people I had met. Demonising an entire religion wont beat ISIS - drawing the wider Muslim world in will Revoking citizenship is an absurd idea when dealing with people born in the UK, as its unworkable, where would you return them to. Its not as if you can say 'Here Turkey, have this terrorist back, because they'll simply refuse to have them, as they don't have Turkish citizenship'. The UK has an issue with Daesh / IS, but our problem fades in comparison to those threatened by, over run by or otherwise in direct confrontational proximity to this death cult. As the statute books stands now it is - change it. Make them stateless and let them make home in what ever medieval, backwards, oppressive state who cares to take them..they want to live under a dark age caliphate built on absurd and contradictory, inhumane practices - let them.
As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014 |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 30 Jun 15 12.25pm |
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Quote The Sash at 30 Jun 2015 11.49am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 29 Jun 2015 3.28pm
Quote The Sash at 29 Jun 2015 2.10pm
Quote dannyh at 28 Jun 2015 1.36pm
I think after events of this weekend IS should be talked about separately to Islam, whilst their religion is that of Islam it is clear that it is not a version followed by the majority of peaceful Muslims, one of LCpl's at work for example. Lets not forget at the same time British tourists were killed so were 30 odd Muslims blown to s*** in their own mosque in Kuwait. I will also admit that my initial reaction on here, was a bit knee jerk, but essentially the sentiment of ignore it and will go away, from the post I was commenting on, is the worst thing we can do, it will get worse if we dont do something. However the tolerance that is shown to Choudry and his ilk beggars belief, if I was to ask a copper to take off a wrist band and get shirty I would be arrested, but because he's a, a Muslim, and b, a dick head he gets away with it. My opinion, for a kick off, anyone who leaves this country to fight for IS never gets back in, and border control should mean that, control of our borders. Indeed Danno - totally agree with all of that. Especially the revoking of citizenship...born here or otherwise. What has bemused me of late is these stupid bints who decided they would like to take their children and live in a dark age culture and war zone and the rather blurry, happy clappy line about the police 'engaging with them' and being 'worried' about them - why ??? f*** em...they have made a choice - let them live with the consequences of it. I had experience of a muslim 'sect' over a number of years through the charity work they did. Big on tolerance and integration their main mosque in pakistan had the living s*** blasted out of it by AQ a few years back killing lots of the friends and relatives of people I had met. Demonising an entire religion wont beat ISIS - drawing the wider Muslim world in will Revoking citizenship is an absurd idea when dealing with people born in the UK, as its unworkable, where would you return them to. Its not as if you can say 'Here Turkey, have this terrorist back, because they'll simply refuse to have them, as they don't have Turkish citizenship'. The UK has an issue with Daesh / IS, but our problem fades in comparison to those threatened by, over run by or otherwise in direct confrontational proximity to this death cult. As the statute books stands now it is - change it. Make them stateless and let them make home in what ever medieval, backwards, oppressive state who cares to take them..they want to live under a dark age caliphate built on absurd and contradictory, inhumane practices - let them. Again, even if you changed the law, it wouldn't work, you can only send them back to the country they arrived from who will then refuse them entry, and return them to the UK. Its not like they're easily identified either, as they'll be coming from nations that have a friendly relationship to the UK. Also in order to revoke their citizenship, you'd have to try them in UK Court of law, prove them to have been part of IS, at which point letting them go seems to be a bit surreal. Surely at this point it makes more sense to imprison them, rather than having confirmed them to be a threat to release them to whatever country that's willing to accept them (which is going to be none). Sounds great in theory, unworkable in practice. You'd end up with bunches of terrorist potentials living in airports, ports or just smuggling themselves into the country
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| reborn 30 Jun 15 12.51pm |
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Quote Johnny Eagles at 30 Jun 2015 10.27am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 26 Jun 2015 1.48pm
Quote martin2412 at 26 Jun 2015 1.45pm
We have to stop fannying about. We need to get in and start wiping this scum off the earth. Modern day Nazis, except now everyone who's not a muslim is a 'Jew' The problem is how do you do it? Drop nukes on Damascus, Baghdad, Jerusalem, Cairo and Tehran. It sorted the Japs out. You don't hear a peep out of them nowadays. Are you serious? If so you need therapy...or to join ISIS as you are two sides of the same coin.
My username has nothing to do with my religious beliefs |
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| silvertop Portishead 30 Jun 15 2.12pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 30 Jun 2015 10.36am
Quote TheJudge at 30 Jun 2015 10.13am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 30 Jun 2015 9.31am
Quote dannyh at 30 Jun 2015 8.42am
So you would allow someone who has through their own free, will gone to a country specifically to kill innocent people in the name of thier chosen sky fairy to come back to Britain abd carry on as normal ? No, I'd try them for Terrorist offences, as they have a universal jurisdiction, and if found guilty, send them to prison, or if more suitable to the country involved extradite them to stand trial in that country. Quote dannyh at 30 Jun 2015 8.42am
It's simple really, you let it be known clearly and without any doubt that ISIS fighters from the UK will not be allowed back into Britain, end of chat. Also you have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that a) they were in Syria b) they were part of IS. A lot of people are in Syria with NGO, aid workers and with non-IS rebel factions. Travelling overseas for the purpose of terrorism is a crime in the UK, with up to a life sentence. We should implement this, or deport them to stand trial in a country in which they have been involved in terrorism. Quote dannyh at 30 Jun 2015 8.42am
That in turn will (I imagine ) push Turkey away from thier "shrugg of the shoulders" attitude if they know that the last place they flew from is where they will be returned to. Turkey would then just put them on a plane back, refusing them entry, as they don't have Turkish citizenship. Turkey isn't really too fussed about IS as its focused against their enemy the Kurds. Quote dannyh at 30 Jun 2015 8.42am
f*** em. This I definitely agree with. I don't like them, but just refusing them entry to the UK, isn't an option.
Not saying that, I'm saying arrest the f**kers, try them, and send them to prison for the crimes they have committed (Terrorism is universal jurisdiction, so they can be tried anywhere), or specifically extradite them to stand trial elsewhere (notably where they have committed crimes). It also enables you to turn one or two of the less committed, to inform on others who they saw out there. I'm not sure how that translates as 'just let them back in and hope for the best'. Revoking citizenship, sounds good on rhetorical level and beats a good nationalist drum, but its utterly impractical, because you'd send them back to the country they came from and that country would just send them back to you. Plus you'd need to go through the process of revoking citizenship, which presumably would require reasonable evidence of fighting with IS (which is going to be tricky to prove). Not at all practical or workable
The kill 'em all element on this site will say: fvck 'em! In this I have a degree of sympathy. However, assuming they have not committed any crime [and how can this be proven?], they will presumably return to their homes and communicate the realities of their experience, whether formally through talking to schools or informally through general chat among their peers; negative publicity in one of the source communities is not a bad thing especially when those who go are fuelled by propaganda and unrealistic fantasies of adventure. As is turning said chap to provide intelligence for our side. As is giving a gullible fool a second chance. As is reuniting the lad with his distraught [and likely entirely innocent] family. On the other hand, giving the lad no way back will simply mean that IS will happily retain one extra fighter who, with time and battle hardening, could become very useful for them.
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| dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 30 Jun 15 2.23pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 30 Jun 2015 12.25pm
Quote The Sash at 30 Jun 2015 11.49am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 29 Jun 2015 3.28pm
Quote The Sash at 29 Jun 2015 2.10pm
Quote dannyh at 28 Jun 2015 1.36pm
I think after events of this weekend IS should be talked about separately to Islam, whilst their religion is that of Islam it is clear that it is not a version followed by the majority of peaceful Muslims, one of LCpl's at work for example. Lets not forget at the same time British tourists were killed so were 30 odd Muslims blown to s*** in their own mosque in Kuwait. I will also admit that my initial reaction on here, was a bit knee jerk, but essentially the sentiment of ignore it and will go away, from the post I was commenting on, is the worst thing we can do, it will get worse if we dont do something. However the tolerance that is shown to Choudry and his ilk beggars belief, if I was to ask a copper to take off a wrist band and get shirty I would be arrested, but because he's a, a Muslim, and b, a dick head he gets away with it. My opinion, for a kick off, anyone who leaves this country to fight for IS never gets back in, and border control should mean that, control of our borders. Indeed Danno - totally agree with all of that. Especially the revoking of citizenship...born here or otherwise. What has bemused me of late is these stupid bints who decided they would like to take their children and live in a dark age culture and war zone and the rather blurry, happy clappy line about the police 'engaging with them' and being 'worried' about them - why ??? f*** em...they have made a choice - let them live with the consequences of it. I had experience of a muslim 'sect' over a number of years through the charity work they did. Big on tolerance and integration their main mosque in pakistan had the living s*** blasted out of it by AQ a few years back killing lots of the friends and relatives of people I had met. Demonising an entire religion wont beat ISIS - drawing the wider Muslim world in will Revoking citizenship is an absurd idea when dealing with people born in the UK, as its unworkable, where would you return them to. Its not as if you can say 'Here Turkey, have this terrorist back, because they'll simply refuse to have them, as they don't have Turkish citizenship'. The UK has an issue with Daesh / IS, but our problem fades in comparison to those threatened by, over run by or otherwise in direct confrontational proximity to this death cult. As the statute books stands now it is - change it. Make them stateless and let them make home in what ever medieval, backwards, oppressive state who cares to take them..they want to live under a dark age caliphate built on absurd and contradictory, inhumane practices - let them. Again, even if you changed the law, it wouldn't work, you can only send them back to the country they arrived from who will then refuse them entry, and return them to the UK. Firstly Jamie it is so much easier to trace peoples traveling footsteps than you are making out. A few key strokes will tell people (not me obvioulsy) every country you ever visited, for how long and how much you spent and on what you spent it on. That my friend is a piss of piss. The simple solution is to ring fence syria we did it to Afghan, commercial and aid flights only until ISIS have been evapourated. That way any unlicensed visitor from the UK will be easily indentifiable and until they can prove otherwise, guess what ? Welcome to Syria. Its not like they're easily identified either, as they'll be coming from nations that have a friendly relationship to the UK. If they are that friendly then surely extra border checks at point of entry shouldn't be an issue, have you ever been to New york ? you have to a complete background check before your even aloowed to step foot on a plane !! let alone stroll through boarder control dressed like a black post box. Also in order to revoke their citizenship, you'd have to try them in UK Court of law, prove them to have been part of IS, at which point letting them go seems to be a bit surreal. Surely at this point it makes more sense to imprison them, rather than having confirmed them to be a threat to release them to whatever country that's willing to accept them (which is going to be none). Wrong again mate laws were passed back in May Not that publicised over here for obvious reasons but it is a fact none the less and I quote : "The new rules will broaden these so-called deprivation powers to include Britons who have no second nationality, provided that they were naturalized as adults. If the home secretary deems that their citizenship is “seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the United Kingdom,” it can be taken away, effective immediately, without a public hearing. A suspect whose citizenship rights have been stripped has 28 days to appeal to a special immigration court." Sounds great in theory, unworkable in practice. You'd end up with bunches of terrorist potentials living in airports, ports or just smuggling themselves into the country Possibly, however surely you can see it is just to easy to nip over to syria kill a few infidels and be back home in time for a bit roasted sheeps head.
"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'" |
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| The Sash Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 30 Jun 15 2.42pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 30 Jun 2015 12.25pm
Quote The Sash at 30 Jun 2015 11.49am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 29 Jun 2015 3.28pm
Quote The Sash at 29 Jun 2015 2.10pm
Quote dannyh at 28 Jun 2015 1.36pm
I think after events of this weekend IS should be talked about separately to Islam, whilst their religion is that of Islam it is clear that it is not a version followed by the majority of peaceful Muslims, one of LCpl's at work for example. Lets not forget at the same time British tourists were killed so were 30 odd Muslims blown to s*** in their own mosque in Kuwait. I will also admit that my initial reaction on here, was a bit knee jerk, but essentially the sentiment of ignore it and will go away, from the post I was commenting on, is the worst thing we can do, it will get worse if we dont do something. However the tolerance that is shown to Choudry and his ilk beggars belief, if I was to ask a copper to take off a wrist band and get shirty I would be arrested, but because he's a, a Muslim, and b, a dick head he gets away with it. My opinion, for a kick off, anyone who leaves this country to fight for IS never gets back in, and border control should mean that, control of our borders. Indeed Danno - totally agree with all of that. Especially the revoking of citizenship...born here or otherwise. What has bemused me of late is these stupid bints who decided they would like to take their children and live in a dark age culture and war zone and the rather blurry, happy clappy line about the police 'engaging with them' and being 'worried' about them - why ??? f*** em...they have made a choice - let them live with the consequences of it. I had experience of a muslim 'sect' over a number of years through the charity work they did. Big on tolerance and integration their main mosque in pakistan had the living s*** blasted out of it by AQ a few years back killing lots of the friends and relatives of people I had met. Demonising an entire religion wont beat ISIS - drawing the wider Muslim world in will Revoking citizenship is an absurd idea when dealing with people born in the UK, as its unworkable, where would you return them to. Its not as if you can say 'Here Turkey, have this terrorist back, because they'll simply refuse to have them, as they don't have Turkish citizenship'. The UK has an issue with Daesh / IS, but our problem fades in comparison to those threatened by, over run by or otherwise in direct confrontational proximity to this death cult. As the statute books stands now it is - change it. Make them stateless and let them make home in what ever medieval, backwards, oppressive state who cares to take them..they want to live under a dark age caliphate built on absurd and contradictory, inhumane practices - let them. Again, even if you changed the law, it wouldn't work, you can only send them back to the country they arrived from who will then refuse them entry, and return them to the UK. Its not like they're easily identified either, as they'll be coming from nations that have a friendly relationship to the UK. Also in order to revoke their citizenship, you'd have to try them in UK Court of law, prove them to have been part of IS, at which point letting them go seems to be a bit surreal. Surely at this point it makes more sense to imprison them, rather than having confirmed them to be a threat to release them to whatever country that's willing to accept them (which is going to be none). Sounds great in theory, unworkable in practice. You'd end up with bunches of terrorist potentials living in airports, ports or just smuggling themselves into the country If you have to ping pong them back to whatever point of entry they came in from then do it whilst the process runs its course. That or intern them securely until it does. The thread title was 'Time to get Tough' and that's exactly what we and the rest of the world should be doing with anyone who remotely connects themselves to ISIS. We have our police and security services publicly stating they are 'worried for' and would like to 'engage with' those who are willingly joining up to ISIS, that's the language you would expect from Deputy Head of Diversity at Lambeth Council 38 people killed in Tunisia - what do we do - give Anjem Choudry and his family police protection and a safe house..ludicrous 'Its the councils fault, its the polices fault, its the schools fault' keeps making its way into the public domain - utter bollocks that is actually being entertained as some get out of jail free card and re-apportioning of blame You want to go live in some Islamic Utopian Caliphate that stones raped women to death - knock yourself out, deal is though its a one way ticket. As for terrorists smuggling themselves back into the country - that's exactly what's happening now and probably the most high profile case being the guys who's uncle was jailed alongside him for aiding and abetting him by driving half was across Europe to collect him in a f***ing cab
As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014 |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 30 Jun 15 2.48pm |
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Quote dannyh at 30 Jun 2015 2.23pm
Firstly Jamie it is so much easier to trace peoples traveling footsteps than you are making out. A few key strokes will tell people (not me obvioulsy) every country you ever visited, for how long and how much you spent and on what you spent it on. That my friend is a piss of piss. The simple solution is to ring fence syria we did it to Afghan, commercial and aid flights only until ISIS have been evapourated. That way any unlicensed visitor from the UK will be easily indentifiable and until they can prove otherwise, guess what ? Welcome to Syria. It depends on how they travel and plan. None of these people are flying into Syria directly, they're likely travelling out on extended visas or student visa to countries, and then slipping over the border. Quote dannyh at 30 Jun 2015 2.23pm
If they are that friendly then surely extra border checks at point of entry shouldn't be an issue, have you ever been to New york ? you have to a complete background check before your even aloowed to step foot on a plane !! let alone stroll through boarder control dressed like a black post box. True, but given your dealing with people likely travelling on EU and British passports, with a substantial basis, they'll likely as not be tricky to identify as having been fighting with IS, just having spent sometime working abroad or with family or travelling etc. Wrong again mate laws were passed back in May Not that publicised over here for obvious reasons but it is a fact none the less and I quote : "The new rules will broaden these so-called deprivation powers to include Britons who have no second nationality, provided that they were naturalized as adults. If the home secretary deems that their citizenship is “seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the United Kingdom,” it can be taken away, effective immediately, without a public hearing. A suspect whose citizenship rights have been stripped has 28 days to appeal to a special immigration court." Good luck enforcing that. Its been used twice, both times in order to get around killing 'British' citizens abroad in drone strikes (and fair enough, f**k them they got what was coming to them). And you need to have a second nationality, which tends to exclude most people born in the UK; as such it applies more to naturalized citizens. Also just reading that, its so convoluted that it'll spend years in court just trying to get the order enforced against appeal. We'd be better off just trying them for Terrorism, or membership of terrorist group, imprisoning them and revoking their right to a passport. Quote dannyh at 30 Jun 2015 2.23pm
Possibly, however surely you can see it is just to easy to nip over to syria kill a few infidels and be back home in time for a bit roasted sheeps head. Won't be any harder in your scenario, it'll just make coming back less of an option. Plus the whole thing will collapse when the inevitable 'wrong person' cases blow up in the UK faces. We have a part to play, and that part is enforcing the law, arresting these people, and either trying them or extraditing them. The idea of just saying 'sorry mate, have to go elsewhere' is a very bad idea in terms of long term security. I get where you are coming from, but if we can prove sufficiently that some f**k was fighting for IS, why revoke their citizenship, I'd rather flag them and have them arrested and spend the rest of their life in prison. Sending them back to IS in Syria to commit more autrocities seems to be counter productive.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 30 Jun 15 2.53pm |
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Quote The Sash at 30 Jun 2015 2.42pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 30 Jun 2015 12.25pm
Quote The Sash at 30 Jun 2015 11.49am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 29 Jun 2015 3.28pm
Quote The Sash at 29 Jun 2015 2.10pm
Quote dannyh at 28 Jun 2015 1.36pm
I think after events of this weekend IS should be talked about separately to Islam, whilst their religion is that of Islam it is clear that it is not a version followed by the majority of peaceful Muslims, one of LCpl's at work for example. Lets not forget at the same time British tourists were killed so were 30 odd Muslims blown to s*** in their own mosque in Kuwait. I will also admit that my initial reaction on here, was a bit knee jerk, but essentially the sentiment of ignore it and will go away, from the post I was commenting on, is the worst thing we can do, it will get worse if we dont do something. However the tolerance that is shown to Choudry and his ilk beggars belief, if I was to ask a copper to take off a wrist band and get shirty I would be arrested, but because he's a, a Muslim, and b, a dick head he gets away with it. My opinion, for a kick off, anyone who leaves this country to fight for IS never gets back in, and border control should mean that, control of our borders. Indeed Danno - totally agree with all of that. Especially the revoking of citizenship...born here or otherwise. What has bemused me of late is these stupid bints who decided they would like to take their children and live in a dark age culture and war zone and the rather blurry, happy clappy line about the police 'engaging with them' and being 'worried' about them - why ??? f*** em...they have made a choice - let them live with the consequences of it. I had experience of a muslim 'sect' over a number of years through the charity work they did. Big on tolerance and integration their main mosque in pakistan had the living s*** blasted out of it by AQ a few years back killing lots of the friends and relatives of people I had met. Demonising an entire religion wont beat ISIS - drawing the wider Muslim world in will Revoking citizenship is an absurd idea when dealing with people born in the UK, as its unworkable, where would you return them to. Its not as if you can say 'Here Turkey, have this terrorist back, because they'll simply refuse to have them, as they don't have Turkish citizenship'. The UK has an issue with Daesh / IS, but our problem fades in comparison to those threatened by, over run by or otherwise in direct confrontational proximity to this death cult. As the statute books stands now it is - change it. Make them stateless and let them make home in what ever medieval, backwards, oppressive state who cares to take them..they want to live under a dark age caliphate built on absurd and contradictory, inhumane practices - let them. Again, even if you changed the law, it wouldn't work, you can only send them back to the country they arrived from who will then refuse them entry, and return them to the UK. Its not like they're easily identified either, as they'll be coming from nations that have a friendly relationship to the UK. Also in order to revoke their citizenship, you'd have to try them in UK Court of law, prove them to have been part of IS, at which point letting them go seems to be a bit surreal. Surely at this point it makes more sense to imprison them, rather than having confirmed them to be a threat to release them to whatever country that's willing to accept them (which is going to be none). Sounds great in theory, unworkable in practice. You'd end up with bunches of terrorist potentials living in airports, ports or just smuggling themselves into the country If you have to ping pong them back to whatever point of entry they came in from then do it. The thread title was 'Time to get Tough' and that's exactly what we and the rest of the world should be doing with anyone who remotely connects themselves to ISIS. You want to go live in some Islamic Utopian Caliphate that stones raped women to death - knock yourself out, deal is though its a one way ticket. As for terrorists smuggling themselves back into the country - that's exactly what's happening now and probably the most high profile case being the guys who's uncle was jailed alongside him for aiding and abetting him by driving half was across Europe to collect him in a f***ing cab Yes, but actually implementing that in any kind of reasonable lawful method is almost impossible. Surely its better to actually convict people than send them back to join IS. We should be tough, but its important to be fair and just in the process. As for sending them back, do you really think its better to send someone back to rejoin some terror outfit or go underground and form another, than to arrest, try and imprison them? What about if they're picked up in the UK - Should we send them to Syria, where they can arm up and cause mayhem, or put them in wormwood scrubs for years.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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