Is Britain a racist country?

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Is Britain a racist country?

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derben 04 Jun 15 5.13pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 04 Jun 2015 3.55pm Quote The Sash at 04 Jun 2015 3.52pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 04 Jun 2015 3.34pm Quote derben at 04 Jun 2015 2.37pm Quote serial thriller at 04 Jun 2015 11.23am Quote Stirlingsays at 04 Jun 2015 1.56am Quote serial thriller at 03 Jun 2015 10.40pm I'm not saying that racism is the sole reason for anything. There are many, many forms of discrimination which are embroiled within society, and all of them should be tackled. What I'm saying is that racism remains prevalent within British society, and leads us to tolerate unimaginable harm and suffering to people in the poorest of conditions. I wouldn't even say that racism is the issue itself: it is the justification for us turning a blind eye to, for example, slavery in China, mass-murder in the middle east or even incarceration in Britain. The beautiful thing about politics is it gives you an avenue to help people who for one reason or other can't help themselves. That could be a disabled person who can't work being provided for by the state so they can lead a dignified life, or a child in a third world country being given a decent education. That's why when I see those people drowning in the mediterranean and our society's primary concern being ourselves I despair, because if we were in their position, we would be desperate for help. People die in horrible ways everyday unseen or seen from a camera....Are they helped? Seeing dead children in the Mediterranean is no doubt a disaster as is a child unseen starving to death....But it is by no means the responsibility of anyone here. Most people only feel responsible for what is in their sphere of influence. Then why do people feel so passionately about immigration, or global warming, considering that both things are outside of their sphere of influence? The anniversary of 9/11 is still a day of significant commemoration, not just in America but in Britain too. Yet more people have died in the Mediterranean already this year than died that day. So why is one seen as so more relevant and personal than the other? You're far more likely to drown than be killed by a terrorist, so the argument that it represents more of a threat to individual security is nonsense. Of course race plays a role in how people regard tragedy. Edited by serial thriller (04 Jun 2015 11.25am) This is an incredibly stupid statement, even for you serial. To suggest that somehow the drownings of some illegal immigrants in the Med is as much a security risk to us than western hating terrorists flying planes into buildings, blowing up trains and buses and hacking people to death in the street, is simply breathtaking. Well obviously, but it is notable, that not by much. 450 in the UK die by drowning, on average, in any given year. Meanwhile, Islamic terrorism hasn't actually managed to kill that many UK citizens in 12 years. Indeed the number of UK deaths, including military and MOD staff, in Afghanistan totals 453, of which 49 are non-combat deaths (most of the deaths occurring during the pacification of the Helmand province, from 2006 onwards). Of course, drowning pales into insignificance compared to influenza which kills around 20,000 people in the UK in any given year (it rose last year by a third, to 28,000 people). Since 9/11, terrorists on the mainland have managed to kill 58 people. There has been four 'successful' Islamist plots of which only the 7/7 Bombings and Lee Rigby murder were genuinely successful, and one successful Far Right attempt (the murder of Mohammed Saleem). At a push you could include the Glasgow airport attack as successful, as it killed one terrorist. Similarly the Exeter bombing was successful, but resulted only injuries being sustained by the attacker. Of course there is a real threat there, its just that its no way proportional to the way we regard that threat as almost omnipresent. My all time favourite - terrorist beaten up whilst he was on fire - you have got to love that aggressive ginger streak the jocks have where they are happy to give someone a f***ing up who's blazing... The burning man was lucky not be to stabbed, raped, robbed and left for dead on the side of the road in Paisley. Maybe the guy was trying to put him out? An important aspect of the case of these doctor terrorists was that it gave the lie to the idea that all the home terrorists were young, uneducated fall guys. They of course were highly educated professional people.
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derben

04 Jun 15 5.13pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 04 Jun 2015 3.55pm

Quote The Sash at 04 Jun 2015 3.52pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 04 Jun 2015 3.34pm

Quote derben at 04 Jun 2015 2.37pm

Quote serial thriller at 04 Jun 2015 11.23am

Quote Stirlingsays at 04 Jun 2015 1.56am

Quote serial thriller at 03 Jun 2015 10.40pm

I'm not saying that racism is the sole reason for anything. There are many, many forms of discrimination which are embroiled within society, and all of them should be tackled. What I'm saying is that racism remains prevalent within British society, and leads us to tolerate unimaginable harm and suffering to people in the poorest of conditions. I wouldn't even say that racism is the issue itself: it is the justification for us turning a blind eye to, for example, slavery in China, mass-murder in the middle east or even incarceration in Britain.

The beautiful thing about politics is it gives you an avenue to help people who for one reason or other can't help themselves. That could be a disabled person who can't work being provided for by the state so they can lead a dignified life, or a child in a third world country being given a decent education. That's why when I see those people drowning in the mediterranean and our society's primary concern being ourselves I despair, because if we were in their position, we would be desperate for help.

People die in horrible ways everyday unseen or seen from a camera....Are they helped? Seeing dead children in the Mediterranean is no doubt a disaster as is a child unseen starving to death....But it is by no means the responsibility of anyone here. Most people only feel responsible for what is in their sphere of influence.

Then why do people feel so passionately about immigration, or global warming, considering that both things are outside of their sphere of influence?

The anniversary of 9/11 is still a day of significant commemoration, not just in America but in Britain too. Yet more people have died in the Mediterranean already this year than died that day. So why is one seen as so more relevant and personal than the other? You're far more likely to drown than be killed by a terrorist, so the argument that it represents more of a threat to individual security is nonsense. Of course race plays a role in how people regard tragedy.

Edited by serial thriller (04 Jun 2015 11.25am)

This is an incredibly stupid statement, even for you serial. To suggest that somehow the drownings of some illegal immigrants in the Med is as much a security risk to us than western hating terrorists flying planes into buildings, blowing up trains and buses and hacking people to death in the street, is simply breathtaking.

Well obviously, but it is notable, that not by much. 450 in the UK die by drowning, on average, in any given year.

Meanwhile, Islamic terrorism hasn't actually managed to kill that many UK citizens in 12 years. Indeed the number of UK deaths, including military and MOD staff, in Afghanistan totals 453, of which 49 are non-combat deaths (most of the deaths occurring during the pacification of the Helmand province, from 2006 onwards).

Of course, drowning pales into insignificance compared to influenza which kills around 20,000 people in the UK in any given year (it rose last year by a third, to 28,000 people).

Since 9/11, terrorists on the mainland have managed to kill 58 people. There has been four 'successful' Islamist plots of which only the 7/7 Bombings and Lee Rigby murder were genuinely successful, and one successful Far Right attempt (the murder of Mohammed Saleem).

At a push you could include the Glasgow airport attack as successful, as it killed one terrorist. Similarly the Exeter bombing was successful, but resulted only injuries being sustained by the attacker.

Of course there is a real threat there, its just that its no way proportional to the way we regard that threat as almost omnipresent.

My all time favourite - terrorist beaten up whilst he was on fire - you have got to love that aggressive ginger streak the jocks have where they are happy to give someone a f***ing up who's blazing...

The burning man was lucky not be to stabbed, raped, robbed and left for dead on the side of the road in Paisley. Maybe the guy was trying to put him out?

An important aspect of the case of these doctor terrorists was that it gave the lie to the idea that all the home terrorists were young, uneducated fall guys. They of course were highly educated professional people.

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suicideatselhurst crawley 04 Jun 15 5.18pm
Quote madcap_v2 at 04 Jun 2015 4.58pm Quote suicideatselhurst at 04 Jun 2015 3.50pm Quote madcap_v2 at 04 Jun 2015 3.10pm Quote suicideatselhurst at 04 Jun 2015 2.43pm Quote dannyh at 04 Jun 2015 2.15pm Quote madcap_v2 at 04 Jun 2015 1.55pm Quote suicideatselhurst at 04 Jun 2015 1.37pm Quote madcap_v2 at 04 Jun 2015 1.27pm Quote Stuk at 03 Jun 2015 1.13pm No, it's not. A saw a story earlier with some black men (including someone from The Voice that i've never watched, but that somehow lends credibility to the assumption) complaining about being refused entry to nightclubs because, in their opinion, of their skin colour. I must've looked black a few times when I was younger if that's the case... I've worked as a nightclub promoter in the West End, this actually happens. having worked the doors in a few clubs, your damm right it happens, espcially when their pissed up, w*ered on drugs or looking for a fight, black or white, however if your black its easy to throw the race card in your face Again, no. This happens. Even to sober, mild-mannered people. Clubs in the West end don't want to many non-white clientelle, purely for their image. Plenty about it on Google if you do a simple search: [Link] [Link] [Link] [Link] 2 of the clubs mentioned, my friend promotes for. Why where you looking at mums net ? dirty boy. Again no what ?, your links are hearsay, third person at best, typical reviews from pissed off punters, where is the solid data to back up your claim that promoters of a money making buisness are refusing to take money of people because of the colour of their skin ?... and from your first link what exactly is a black name ? So we'll completely gloss over my own experiences as a customer and a club promoter, my club promoter friend who experiences this regularly and the many customer reviews for nightclubs online then? You honestly can't be obtuse enough to not know what a black name is? Do you know any African people? The majority of names and surnames can be traced to a specific country, race and even religion. I think you've mistaken me for a race crusader. I'm not. I don't think Britain is a racist country. Sure, pockets of racism exist in this country, but I feel a lot safer travelling to certain areas than I could have done 15 years ago. By the same token you will gloss over mine as a doorman ?...this is a website not a personal attack on you...so cut out the obtuse bollocks ok ?...is jason puncheon an obvious black name ? .. if the woman in the review had said african names fair enough, she didnt she said black names..tim green, michael thomas and peter lago which ones black ? real names real people and one is black ? I never glossed over your doorman experience, just highlighted that I've seen first hand that it happens. Never denied that people get turned away for the reasons you identified too. Of course, I've been turned away from clubs for being too pissed, with too many guys, not being dressed appropriately etc., but I have also been turned away because I "didn't fit the ethnic criteria" for that club. I'm also fully aware that sexism exists for these places too, but the thread isn't about sexism in the UK is it?** In the example I gave, Fiasyo Longe is definitely not an English name, almost nailed on to be a black African too. My own name is Irish, so I do understand ethnicity by name isn't always crystal clear. If you found me questioning if you're deliberately being obtuse offensive, I apologise, but you're not really taking in what I am saying. Yes i know its not i havent said anything about sexisim ? that must have been somebody else maybe, long threads get confusing.... im taking in what you saying maybe we just have different points of view on the same subject... and i didnt see any example of Fiasyo Longe whoever he/she is Theres someone in my head ... But its not me X/Box game Tag bazcpfc1961, clan (HMS)
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suicideatselhurst

crawley 04 Jun 15 5.18pm

Quote madcap_v2 at 04 Jun 2015 4.58pm

Quote suicideatselhurst at 04 Jun 2015 3.50pm

Quote madcap_v2 at 04 Jun 2015 3.10pm

Quote suicideatselhurst at 04 Jun 2015 2.43pm

Quote dannyh at 04 Jun 2015 2.15pm

Quote madcap_v2 at 04 Jun 2015 1.55pm

Quote suicideatselhurst at 04 Jun 2015 1.37pm

Quote madcap_v2 at 04 Jun 2015 1.27pm

Quote Stuk at 03 Jun 2015 1.13pm

No, it's not.

A saw a story earlier with some black men (including someone from The Voice that i've never watched, but that somehow lends credibility to the assumption) complaining about being refused entry to nightclubs because, in their opinion, of their skin colour.

I must've looked black a few times when I was younger if that's the case...

I've worked as a nightclub promoter in the West End, this actually happens.

having worked the doors in a few clubs, your damm right it happens, espcially when their pissed up, w***ered on drugs or looking for a fight, black or white, however if your black its easy to throw the race card in your face

Again, no. This happens. Even to sober, mild-mannered people. Clubs in the West end don't want to many non-white clientelle, purely for their image.

Plenty about it on Google if you do a simple search:

[Link]
[Link]
[Link]
[Link]

2 of the clubs mentioned, my friend promotes for.

Why where you looking at mums net ? dirty boy.

Again no what ?, your links are hearsay, third person at best, typical reviews from pissed off punters, where is the solid data to back up your claim that promoters of a money making buisness are refusing to take money of people because of the colour of their skin ?... and from your first link what exactly is a black name ?

So we'll completely gloss over my own experiences as a customer and a club promoter, my club promoter friend who experiences this regularly and the many customer reviews for nightclubs online then?

You honestly can't be obtuse enough to not know what a black name is? Do you know any African people? The majority of names and surnames can be traced to a specific country, race and even religion.

I think you've mistaken me for a race crusader. I'm not. I don't think Britain is a racist country. Sure, pockets of racism exist in this country, but I feel a lot safer travelling to certain areas than I could have done 15 years ago.

By the same token you will gloss over mine as a doorman ?...this is a website not a personal attack on you...so cut out the obtuse bollocks ok ?...is jason puncheon an obvious black name ? .. if the woman in the review had said african names fair enough, she didnt she said black names..tim green, michael thomas and peter lago which ones black ? real names real people and one is black ?

I never glossed over your doorman experience, just highlighted that I've seen first hand that it happens. Never denied that people get turned away for the reasons you identified too. Of course, I've been turned away from clubs for being too pissed, with too many guys, not being dressed appropriately etc., but I have also been turned away because I "didn't fit the ethnic criteria" for that club.

I'm also fully aware that sexism exists for these places too, but the thread isn't about sexism in the UK is it?

In the example I gave, Fiasyo Longe is definitely not an English name, almost nailed on to be a black African too. My own name is Irish, so I do understand ethnicity by name isn't always crystal clear.

If you found me questioning if you're deliberately being obtuse offensive, I apologise, but you're not really taking in what I am saying.

Yes i know its not i havent said anything about sexisim ? that must have been somebody else maybe, long threads get confusing.... im taking in what you saying maybe we just have different points of view on the same subject... and i didnt see any example of Fiasyo Longe whoever he/she is

Theres someone in my head ... But its not me

X/Box game Tag bazcpfc1961, clan (HMS)

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madcap_v2 SE25 / Ibiza 04 Jun 15 5.27pm
Quote suicideatselhurst at 04 Jun 2015 5.18pm Quote madcap_v2 at 04 Jun 2015 4.58pm Quote suicideatselhurst at 04 Jun 2015 3.50pm Quote madcap_v2 at 04 Jun 2015 3.10pm Quote suicideatselhurst at 04 Jun 2015 2.43pm Quote dannyh at 04 Jun 2015 2.15pm Quote madcap_v2 at 04 Jun 2015 1.55pm Quote suicideatselhurst at 04 Jun 2015 1.37pm Quote madcap_v2 at 04 Jun 2015 1.27pm Quote Stuk at 03 Jun 2015 1.13pm No, it's not. A saw a story earlier with some black men (including someone from The Voice that i've never watched, but that somehow lends credibility to the assumption) complaining about being refused entry to nightclubs because, in their opinion, of their skin colour. I must've looked black a few times when I was younger if that's the case... I've worked as a nightclub promoter in the West End, this actually happens. having worked the doors in a few clubs, your damm right it happens, espcially when their pissed up, w*ered on drugs or looking for a fight, black or white, however if your black its easy to throw the race card in your face Again, no. This happens. Even to sober, mild-mannered people. Clubs in the West end don't want to many non-white clientelle, purely for their image. Plenty about it on Google if you do a simple search: [Link] [Link] [Link] [Link] 2 of the clubs mentioned, my friend promotes for. Why where you looking at mums net ? dirty boy. Again no what ?, your links are hearsay, third person at best, typical reviews from pissed off punters, where is the solid data to back up your claim that promoters of a money making buisness are refusing to take money of people because of the colour of their skin ?... and from your first link what exactly is a black name ? So we'll completely gloss over my own experiences as a customer and a club promoter, my club promoter friend who experiences this regularly and the many customer reviews for nightclubs online then? You honestly can't be obtuse enough to not know what a black name is? Do you know any African people? The majority of names and surnames can be traced to a specific country, race and even religion. I think you've mistaken me for a race crusader. I'm not. I don't think Britain is a racist country. Sure, pockets of racism exist in this country, but I feel a lot safer travelling to certain areas than I could have done 15 years ago. By the same token you will gloss over mine as a doorman ?...this is a website not a personal attack on you...so cut out the obtuse bollocks ok ?...is jason puncheon an obvious black name ? .. if the woman in the review had said african names fair enough, she didnt she said black names..tim green, michael thomas and peter lago which ones black ? real names real people and one is black ? I never glossed over your doorman experience, just highlighted that I've seen first hand that it happens. Never denied that people get turned away for the reasons you identified too. Of course, I've been turned away from clubs for being too pissed, with too many guys, not being dressed appropriately etc., but I have also been turned away because I "didn't fit the ethnic criteria" for that club. I'm also fully aware that sexism exists for these places too, but the thread isn't about sexism in the UK is it?** In the example I gave, Fiasyo Longe is definitely not an English name, almost nailed on to be a black African too. My own name is Irish, so I do understand ethnicity by name isn't always crystal clear. If you found me questioning if you're deliberately being obtuse offensive, I apologise, but you're not really taking in what I am saying. Yes i know its not i havent said anything about sexisim ? that must have been somebody else maybe, long threads get confusing.... im taking in what you saying maybe we just have different points of view on the same subject... and i didnt see any example of Fiasyo Longe whoever he/she is [Link] Fiasyo example I posted above... I think we have a differences in experiences on what I'm talking about. Neither of us can dismiss what the other has seen and experienced themselves. Sorry, the sexism comment was in reference to another post, I cba to do the fancy multi-quote thing. La la la your mum
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madcap_v2

SE25 / Ibiza 04 Jun 15 5.27pm

Quote suicideatselhurst at 04 Jun 2015 5.18pm

Quote madcap_v2 at 04 Jun 2015 4.58pm

Quote suicideatselhurst at 04 Jun 2015 3.50pm

Quote madcap_v2 at 04 Jun 2015 3.10pm

Quote suicideatselhurst at 04 Jun 2015 2.43pm

Quote dannyh at 04 Jun 2015 2.15pm

Quote madcap_v2 at 04 Jun 2015 1.55pm

Quote suicideatselhurst at 04 Jun 2015 1.37pm

Quote madcap_v2 at 04 Jun 2015 1.27pm

Quote Stuk at 03 Jun 2015 1.13pm

No, it's not.

I must've looked black a few times when I was younger if that's the case...

I've worked as a nightclub promoter in the West End, this actually happens.

Again, no. This happens. Even to sober, mild-mannered people. Clubs in the West end don't want to many non-white clientelle, purely for their image.

Plenty about it on Google if you do a simple search:

[Link]
[Link]
[Link]
[Link]

2 of the clubs mentioned, my friend promotes for.

Why where you looking at mums net ? dirty boy.

So we'll completely gloss over my own experiences as a customer and a club promoter, my club promoter friend who experiences this regularly and the many customer reviews for nightclubs online then?

You honestly can't be obtuse enough to not know what a black name is? Do you know any African people? The majority of names and surnames can be traced to a specific country, race and even religion.

I'm also fully aware that sexism exists for these places too, but the thread isn't about sexism in the UK is it?

If you found me questioning if you're deliberately being obtuse offensive, I apologise, but you're not really taking in what I am saying.

[Link]
Fiasyo example I posted above...

I think we have a differences in experiences on what I'm talking about. Neither of us can dismiss what the other has seen and experienced themselves.

Sorry, the sexism comment was in reference to another post, I cba to do the fancy multi-quote thing.

La la la your mum

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suicideatselhurst crawley 04 Jun 15 5.32pm
Quote madcap_v2 at 04 Jun 2015 5.27pm Quote suicideatselhurst at 04 Jun 2015 5.18pm Quote madcap_v2 at 04 Jun 2015 4.58pm Quote suicideatselhurst at 04 Jun 2015 3.50pm Quote madcap_v2 at 04 Jun 2015 3.10pm Quote suicideatselhurst at 04 Jun 2015 2.43pm Quote dannyh at 04 Jun 2015 2.15pm Quote madcap_v2 at 04 Jun 2015 1.55pm Quote suicideatselhurst at 04 Jun 2015 1.37pm Quote madcap_v2 at 04 Jun 2015 1.27pm Quote Stuk at 03 Jun 2015 1.13pm No, it's not. A saw a story earlier with some black men (including someone from The Voice that i've never watched, but that somehow lends credibility to the assumption) complaining about being refused entry to nightclubs because, in their opinion, of their skin colour. I must've looked black a few times when I was younger if that's the case... I've worked as a nightclub promoter in the West End, this actually happens. having worked the doors in a few clubs, your damm right it happens, espcially when their pissed up, w*ered on drugs or looking for a fight, black or white, however if your black its easy to throw the race card in your face Again, no. This happens. Even to sober, mild-mannered people. Clubs in the West end don't want to many non-white clientelle, purely for their image. Plenty about it on Google if you do a simple search: [Link] [Link] [Link] [Link] 2 of the clubs mentioned, my friend promotes for. Why where you looking at mums net ? dirty boy. Again no what ?, your links are hearsay, third person at best, typical reviews from pissed off punters, where is the solid data to back up your claim that promoters of a money making buisness are refusing to take money of people because of the colour of their skin ?... and from your first link what exactly is a black name ? So we'll completely gloss over my own experiences as a customer and a club promoter, my club promoter friend who experiences this regularly and the many customer reviews for nightclubs online then? You honestly can't be obtuse enough to not know what a black name is? Do you know any African people? The majority of names and surnames can be traced to a specific country, race and even religion. I think you've mistaken me for a race crusader. I'm not. I don't think Britain is a racist country. Sure, pockets of racism exist in this country, but I feel a lot safer travelling to certain areas than I could have done 15 years ago. By the same token you will gloss over mine as a doorman ?...this is a website not a personal attack on you...so cut out the obtuse bollocks ok ?...is jason puncheon an obvious black name ? .. if the woman in the review had said african names fair enough, she didnt she said black names..tim green, michael thomas and peter lago which ones black ? real names real people and one is black ? I never glossed over your doorman experience, just highlighted that I've seen first hand that it happens. Never denied that people get turned away for the reasons you identified too. Of course, I've been turned away from clubs for being too pissed, with too many guys, not being dressed appropriately etc., but I have also been turned away because I "didn't fit the ethnic criteria" for that club. I'm also fully aware that sexism exists for these places too, but the thread isn't about sexism in the UK is it?** In the example I gave, Fiasyo Longe is definitely not an English name, almost nailed on to be a black African too. My own name is Irish, so I do understand ethnicity by name isn't always crystal clear. If you found me questioning if you're deliberately being obtuse offensive, I apologise, but you're not really taking in what I am saying. Yes i know its not i havent said anything about sexisim ? that must have been somebody else maybe, long threads get confusing.... im taking in what you saying maybe we just have different points of view on the same subject... and i didnt see any example of Fiasyo Longe whoever he/she is [Link] Fiasyo example I posted above... I think we have a differences in experiences on what I'm talking about. Neither of us can dismiss what the other has seen and experienced themselves. Sorry, the sexism comment was in reference to another post, I cba to do the fancy multi-quote thing. Sorry did see it just didnt catch the name just the club name, dont bother with the multi tasking on here lol Theres someone in my head ... But its not me X/Box game Tag bazcpfc1961, clan (HMS)
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suicideatselhurst

crawley 04 Jun 15 5.32pm

Quote madcap_v2 at 04 Jun 2015 5.27pm

Quote suicideatselhurst at 04 Jun 2015 5.18pm

Quote madcap_v2 at 04 Jun 2015 4.58pm

Quote suicideatselhurst at 04 Jun 2015 3.50pm

Quote madcap_v2 at 04 Jun 2015 3.10pm

Quote suicideatselhurst at 04 Jun 2015 2.43pm

Quote dannyh at 04 Jun 2015 2.15pm

Quote madcap_v2 at 04 Jun 2015 1.55pm

Quote suicideatselhurst at 04 Jun 2015 1.37pm

Quote madcap_v2 at 04 Jun 2015 1.27pm

Quote Stuk at 03 Jun 2015 1.13pm

No, it's not.

I must've looked black a few times when I was younger if that's the case...

I've worked as a nightclub promoter in the West End, this actually happens.

Again, no. This happens. Even to sober, mild-mannered people. Clubs in the West end don't want to many non-white clientelle, purely for their image.

Plenty about it on Google if you do a simple search:

[Link]
[Link]
[Link]
[Link]

2 of the clubs mentioned, my friend promotes for.

Why where you looking at mums net ? dirty boy.

So we'll completely gloss over my own experiences as a customer and a club promoter, my club promoter friend who experiences this regularly and the many customer reviews for nightclubs online then?

You honestly can't be obtuse enough to not know what a black name is? Do you know any African people? The majority of names and surnames can be traced to a specific country, race and even religion.

I'm also fully aware that sexism exists for these places too, but the thread isn't about sexism in the UK is it?

If you found me questioning if you're deliberately being obtuse offensive, I apologise, but you're not really taking in what I am saying.

[Link]
Fiasyo example I posted above...

I think we have a differences in experiences on what I'm talking about. Neither of us can dismiss what the other has seen and experienced themselves.

Sorry, the sexism comment was in reference to another post, I cba to do the fancy multi-quote thing.

Sorry did see it just didnt catch the name just the club name, dont bother with the multi tasking on here lol

Theres someone in my head ... But its not me

X/Box game Tag bazcpfc1961, clan (HMS)

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lankygit Lincoln 04 Jun 15 6.17pm
Quote madcap_v2 at 04 Jun 2015 5.27pm [Link] Fiasyo example I posted above... I think we have a differences in experiences on what I'm talking about. Neither of us can dismiss what the other has seen and experienced themselves. Sorry, the sexism comment was in reference to another post, I cba to do the fancy multi-quote thing. Well she doesn`t look like a "gangsta" or a "crip". I`d be doing everything in my power to get her in - she`s gorgeous. Is this a five minute argument, or the full half hour? [Link]
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lankygit

Lincoln 04 Jun 15 6.17pm

Quote madcap_v2 at 04 Jun 2015 5.27pm

[Link]
Fiasyo example I posted above...

I think we have a differences in experiences on what I'm talking about. Neither of us can dismiss what the other has seen and experienced themselves.

Sorry, the sexism comment was in reference to another post, I cba to do the fancy multi-quote thing.

Well she doesn`t look like a "gangsta" or a "crip". I`d be doing everything in my power to get her in - she`s gorgeous.

Is this a five minute argument, or the full half hour? [Link]

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Jamesrichards8 04 Jun 15 6.22pm
My dad was in Brazil last year. Someone put a knife to his back and asked for all his money on the beach, while 30 or more Brazilians watched on and did nothing. The police (ha!) told him to f* off (literally). The muggers wouldn't even have been looked at if he wasn't white (he had no watch and little money). Other people may have aided him if he was Brazilian (he asked, they replied in English that they missed it). It's racist, but it's what you'd expect. This isn't f*ing disneyland. We don't and never will all welcome each other wholeheartedly into foreign countries. We're lucky we've gotten this far, and Britain is far better than most. Case closed. When you’re knocked on your back and your life’s a flop...
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Jamesrichards8

04 Jun 15 6.22pm

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My dad was in Brazil last year. Someone put a knife to his back and asked for all his money on the beach, while 30 or more Brazilians watched on and did nothing. The police (ha!) told him to f*** off (literally).
The muggers wouldn't even have been looked at if he wasn't white (he had no watch and little money). Other people may have aided him if he was Brazilian (he asked, they replied in English that they missed it).
It's racist, but it's what you'd expect.
This isn't f***ing disneyland. We don't and never will all welcome each other wholeheartedly into foreign countries. We're lucky we've gotten this far, and Britain is far better than most. Case closed.

When you’re knocked on your back and your life’s a flop...

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jamiemartin721 Reading 04 Jun 15 10.00pm
Quote derben at 04 Jun 2015 5.13pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 04 Jun 2015 3.55pm Quote The Sash at 04 Jun 2015 3.52pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 04 Jun 2015 3.34pm Quote derben at 04 Jun 2015 2.37pm Quote serial thriller at 04 Jun 2015 11.23am Quote Stirlingsays at 04 Jun 2015 1.56am Quote serial thriller at 03 Jun 2015 10.40pm I'm not saying that racism is the sole reason for anything. There are many, many forms of discrimination which are embroiled within society, and all of them should be tackled. What I'm saying is that racism remains prevalent within British society, and leads us to tolerate unimaginable harm and suffering to people in the poorest of conditions. I wouldn't even say that racism is the issue itself: it is the justification for us turning a blind eye to, for example, slavery in China, mass-murder in the middle east or even incarceration in Britain. The beautiful thing about politics is it gives you an avenue to help people who for one reason or other can't help themselves. That could be a disabled person who can't work being provided for by the state so they can lead a dignified life, or a child in a third world country being given a decent education. That's why when I see those people drowning in the mediterranean and our society's primary concern being ourselves I despair, because if we were in their position, we would be desperate for help. People die in horrible ways everyday unseen or seen from a camera....Are they helped? Seeing dead children in the Mediterranean is no doubt a disaster as is a child unseen starving to death....But it is by no means the responsibility of anyone here. Most people only feel responsible for what is in their sphere of influence. Then why do people feel so passionately about immigration, or global warming, considering that both things are outside of their sphere of influence? The anniversary of 9/11 is still a day of significant commemoration, not just in America but in Britain too. Yet more people have died in the Mediterranean already this year than died that day. So why is one seen as so more relevant and personal than the other? You're far more likely to drown than be killed by a terrorist, so the argument that it represents more of a threat to individual security is nonsense. Of course race plays a role in how people regard tragedy. Edited by serial thriller (04 Jun 2015 11.25am) This is an incredibly stupid statement, even for you serial. To suggest that somehow the drownings of some illegal immigrants in the Med is as much a security risk to us than western hating terrorists flying planes into buildings, blowing up trains and buses and hacking people to death in the street, is simply breathtaking. Well obviously, but it is notable, that not by much. 450 in the UK die by drowning, on average, in any given year. Meanwhile, Islamic terrorism hasn't actually managed to kill that many UK citizens in 12 years. Indeed the number of UK deaths, including military and MOD staff, in Afghanistan totals 453, of which 49 are non-combat deaths (most of the deaths occurring during the pacification of the Helmand province, from 2006 onwards). Of course, drowning pales into insignificance compared to influenza which kills around 20,000 people in the UK in any given year (it rose last year by a third, to 28,000 people). Since 9/11, terrorists on the mainland have managed to kill 58 people. There has been four 'successful' Islamist plots of which only the 7/7 Bombings and Lee Rigby murder were genuinely successful, and one successful Far Right attempt (the murder of Mohammed Saleem). At a push you could include the Glasgow airport attack as successful, as it killed one terrorist. Similarly the Exeter bombing was successful, but resulted only injuries being sustained by the attacker. Of course there is a real threat there, its just that its no way proportional to the way we regard that threat as almost omnipresent. My all time favourite - terrorist beaten up whilst he was on fire - you have got to love that aggressive ginger streak the jocks have where they are happy to give someone a f*ing up who's blazing... The burning man was lucky not be to stabbed, raped, robbed and left for dead on the side of the road in Paisley. Maybe the guy was trying to put him out? An important aspect of the case of these doctor terrorists was that it gave the lie to the idea that all the home terrorists were young, uneducated fall guys. They of course were highly educated professional fail guys**. I hope they were better doctors than terrorists. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 04 Jun 15 10.00pm

Quote derben at 04 Jun 2015 5.13pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 04 Jun 2015 3.55pm

Quote The Sash at 04 Jun 2015 3.52pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 04 Jun 2015 3.34pm

Quote derben at 04 Jun 2015 2.37pm

Quote serial thriller at 04 Jun 2015 11.23am

Quote Stirlingsays at 04 Jun 2015 1.56am

Quote serial thriller at 03 Jun 2015 10.40pm

Then why do people feel so passionately about immigration, or global warming, considering that both things are outside of their sphere of influence?

Edited by serial thriller (04 Jun 2015 11.25am)

Well obviously, but it is notable, that not by much. 450 in the UK die by drowning, on average, in any given year.

Of course, drowning pales into insignificance compared to influenza which kills around 20,000 people in the UK in any given year (it rose last year by a third, to 28,000 people).

Of course there is a real threat there, its just that its no way proportional to the way we regard that threat as almost omnipresent.

The burning man was lucky not be to stabbed, raped, robbed and left for dead on the side of the road in Paisley. Maybe the guy was trying to put him out?

I hope they were better doctors than terrorists.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 04 Jun 15 10.05pm
Quote derben at 04 Jun 2015 4.06pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 04 Jun 2015 3.34pm Quote derben at 04 Jun 2015 2.37pm Quote serial thriller at 04 Jun 2015 11.23am Quote Stirlingsays at 04 Jun 2015 1.56am Quote serial thriller at 03 Jun 2015 10.40pm I'm not saying that racism is the sole reason for anything. There are many, many forms of discrimination which are embroiled within society, and all of them should be tackled. What I'm saying is that racism remains prevalent within British society, and leads us to tolerate unimaginable harm and suffering to people in the poorest of conditions. I wouldn't even say that racism is the issue itself: it is the justification for us turning a blind eye to, for example, slavery in China, mass-murder in the middle east or even incarceration in Britain. The beautiful thing about politics is it gives you an avenue to help people who for one reason or other can't help themselves. That could be a disabled person who can't work being provided for by the state so they can lead a dignified life, or a child in a third world country being given a decent education. That's why when I see those people drowning in the mediterranean and our society's primary concern being ourselves I despair, because if we were in their position, we would be desperate for help. People die in horrible ways everyday unseen or seen from a camera....Are they helped? Seeing dead children in the Mediterranean is no doubt a disaster as is a child unseen starving to death....But it is by no means the responsibility of anyone here. Most people only feel responsible for what is in their sphere of influence. Then why do people feel so passionately about immigration, or global warming, considering that both things are outside of their sphere of influence? The anniversary of 9/11 is still a day of significant commemoration, not just in America but in Britain too. Yet more people have died in the Mediterranean already this year than died that day. So why is one seen as so more relevant and personal than the other? You're far more likely to drown than be killed by a terrorist, so the argument that it represents more of a threat to individual security is nonsense. Of course race plays a role in how people regard tragedy. Edited by serial thriller (04 Jun 2015 11.25am) This is an incredibly stupid statement, even for you serial. To suggest that somehow the drownings of some illegal immigrants in the Med is as much a security risk to us than western hating terrorists flying planes into buildings, blowing up trains and buses and hacking people to death in the street, is simply breathtaking. Well obviously, but it is notable, that not by much. 450 in the UK die by drowning, on average, in any given year. Meanwhile, Islamic terrorism hasn't actually managed to kill that many UK citizens in 12 years. Indeed the number of UK deaths, including military and MOD staff, in Afghanistan totals 453, of which 49 are non-combat deaths (most of the deaths occurring during the pacification of the Helmand province, from 2006 onwards). Of course, drowning pales into insignificance compared to influenza which kills around 20,000 people in the UK in any given year (it rose last year by a third, to 28,000 people). Since 9/11, terrorists on the mainland have managed to kill 58 people. There has been four 'successful' Islamist plots of which only the 7/7 Bombings and Lee Rigby murder were genuinely successful, and one successful Far Right attempt (the murder of Mohammed Saleem). At a push you could include the Glasgow airport attack as successful, as it killed one terrorist. Similarly the Exeter bombing was successful, but resulted only injuries being sustained by the attacker. Of course there is a real threat there, its just that its no way proportional to the way we regard that threat as almost omnipresent. I agree with you to an extent in that terrorist acts usually only affects a small number of people (although nearly 3,000 on 9/11), but it is a bit like saying the 1918 flu pandemic killed 50,000,000 worldwide, so World War I was unimportant by comparison. It kind of is, in terms of people killing. Despite our best efforts we have nothing on the capacity of nature... Quote derben at 04 Jun 2015 4.06pm Terrorism is more important in that there is a significant amount of support of it in some British communities, and there will undoubtedly be more of it here. Mohammed Saleem was killed by a right wing nutter - a right wing immigrant nutter. The terrorist threat from the right in this country is negligible. There is also no limit to what the current crop of terrorists are prepared to do, the more they can kill the happier they are. Indeed, terrorism is a threat, and importantly one that we are very good at dealing with, my concern lies more though with the ease by which one incident becomes an avalanche of people trying to surrender other peoples rights and their own freedoms, in order to achieve a security that already existed. I'd argue that the reaction to the threat of terrorism and the publics fear do far more damage to us, as a society, than the terrorist groups in question ever could. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 04 Jun 15 10.05pm

Quote derben at 04 Jun 2015 4.06pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 04 Jun 2015 3.34pm

Quote derben at 04 Jun 2015 2.37pm

Quote serial thriller at 04 Jun 2015 11.23am

Quote Stirlingsays at 04 Jun 2015 1.56am

Quote serial thriller at 03 Jun 2015 10.40pm

Then why do people feel so passionately about immigration, or global warming, considering that both things are outside of their sphere of influence?

Edited by serial thriller (04 Jun 2015 11.25am)

Well obviously, but it is notable, that not by much. 450 in the UK die by drowning, on average, in any given year.

Of course, drowning pales into insignificance compared to influenza which kills around 20,000 people in the UK in any given year (it rose last year by a third, to 28,000 people).

At a push you could include the Glasgow airport attack as successful, as it killed one terrorist. Similarly the Exeter bombing was successful, but resulted only injuries being sustained by the attacker.

Of course there is a real threat there, its just that its no way proportional to the way we regard that threat as almost omnipresent.

I agree with you to an extent in that terrorist acts usually only affects a small number of people (although nearly 3,000 on 9/11), but it is a bit like saying the 1918 flu pandemic killed 50,000,000 worldwide, so World War I was unimportant by comparison.

It kind of is, in terms of people killing. Despite our best efforts we have nothing on the capacity of nature...

Quote derben at 04 Jun 2015 4.06pm

Terrorism is more important in that there is a significant amount of support of it in some British communities, and there will undoubtedly be more of it here. Mohammed Saleem was killed by a right wing nutter - a right wing immigrant nutter. The terrorist threat from the right in this country is negligible. There is also no limit to what the current crop of terrorists are prepared to do, the more they can kill the happier they are.

Indeed, terrorism is a threat, and importantly one that we are very good at dealing with, my concern lies more though with the ease by which one incident becomes an avalanche of people trying to surrender other peoples rights and their own freedoms, in order to achieve a security that already existed.

I'd argue that the reaction to the threat of terrorism and the publics fear do far more damage to us, as a society, than the terrorist groups in question ever could.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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legaleagle 04 Jun 15 10.13pm
UK is IMO far from the worst, but no reason to be complacent.It exists here both overtly and more subconsciously in terms of mindset. Many people may well prefer to mix with "the similar" (and many don't) but not sure that's nowadays based on anything inherent or genetic.More conditioning and circumstance. As an example,look at the level of integration of 1950;s/60's immigrant families from W Indies/Africa one or two generations on from 1950's "attitudes/separateness". From my experience,countries in Former Yugoslavia,as a European example, are (big generality) seriously more racist,particularly in day to day attitudes towards Roma people,though there (as in some cases here) the negativity is also pronounced towards people from not too far away of differing ethnicity as well,at an equal level. Some of the stuff some (not all by far) people come up with about Muslims as a homogeneous group with group traits gets a little further along the line towards the Former Yugoslav attitude to other ethnicities and races nowadays.
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legaleagle

04 Jun 15 10.13pm

UK is IMO far from the worst, but no reason to be complacent.It exists here both overtly and more subconsciously in terms of mindset.

Many people may well prefer to mix with "the similar" (and many don't) but not sure that's nowadays based on anything inherent or genetic.More conditioning and circumstance.

As an example,look at the level of integration of 1950;s/60's immigrant families from W Indies/Africa one or two generations on from 1950's "attitudes/separateness".

From my experience,countries in Former Yugoslavia,as a European example, are (big generality) seriously more racist,particularly in day to day attitudes towards Roma people,though there (as in some cases here) the negativity is also pronounced towards people from not too far away of differing ethnicity as well,at an equal level.

Some of the stuff some (not all by far) people come up with about Muslims as a homogeneous group with group traits gets a little further along the line towards the Former Yugoslav attitude to other ethnicities and races nowadays.

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derben 04 Jun 15 10.41pm
Quote legaleagle at 04 Jun 2015 10.13pm UK is IMO far from the worst, but no reason to be complacent.It exists here both overtly and more subconsciously in terms of mindset. Many people may well prefer to mix with "the similar" (and many don't) but not sure that's nowadays based on anything inherent or genetic.More conditioning and circumstance. As an example,look at the level of integration of 1950;s/60's immigrant families from W Indies/Africa one or two generations on from 1950's "attitudes/separateness". From my experience,countries in Former Yugoslavia,as a European example, are (big generality) seriously more racist,particularly in day to day attitudes towards Roma people,though there (as in some cases here) the negativity is also pronounced towards people from not too far away of differing ethnicity as well,at an equal level. Some of the stuff some (not all by far) people come up with about Muslims as a homogeneous group with group traits gets a little further along the line towards the Former Yugoslav attitude to other ethnicities and races nowadays. There are people who dislike Islam for perfectly good, rational, reasons. Of course not all Muslims wish to chop your head off or stone you to death for not being a Muslim, or for being gay, or Jewish, or for renouncing your faith because you've realised it is illiberal and vindictive. Not all Muslims agree with murdering people who publish cartoons, burning books and threatening their authors with death. Similarly, not all Muslims think women should be covered from head to foot, not allowed to be educated or to go to work, or even drive a car. However, there are quite a few who do. As for the 'Roma', do you think it is possible that peoples' view of them is coloured by their experience of them?
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derben

04 Jun 15 10.41pm

Quote legaleagle at 04 Jun 2015 10.13pm

UK is IMO far from the worst, but no reason to be complacent.It exists here both overtly and more subconsciously in terms of mindset.

Many people may well prefer to mix with "the similar" (and many don't) but not sure that's nowadays based on anything inherent or genetic.More conditioning and circumstance.

As an example,look at the level of integration of 1950;s/60's immigrant families from W Indies/Africa one or two generations on from 1950's "attitudes/separateness".

There are people who dislike Islam for perfectly good, rational, reasons. Of course not all Muslims wish to chop your head off or stone you to death for not being a Muslim, or for being gay, or Jewish, or for renouncing your faith because you've realised it is illiberal and vindictive. Not all Muslims agree with murdering people who publish cartoons, burning books and threatening their authors with death. Similarly, not all Muslims think women should be covered from head to foot, not allowed to be educated or to go to work, or even drive a car. However, there are quite a few who do.

As for the 'Roma', do you think it is possible that peoples' view of them is coloured by their experience of them?

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legaleagle 04 Jun 15 11.30pm
In former Yugoslavia? No,not the underlying driving force IMO. Though the usual negatives associated with having been at the bottom of the heap and everyone's whipping boys for centuries. Bear in mind,hundreds of years of blind prejudice and manipulation towards blaming all ills on "the other". Also,bear in mind this is a region where hostility to people of the same race and largely culture has occurred too ie from "Bosnian Croats" towards "Bosnian Muslims".It is based on some very dodgy historical and ongoing prejudices,not all of which can be explained by religion or race. Same applies re Serbs and Croats (very similar ethnicity,though different religion) and Serbs and Kosovans (many "Albanian" muslims).But all very much based on prejudice towards "the other". Very much based on hundreds of years of having demonised collectively other "groups" as "the enemy within" and/or "the other" and/or "out to get us". The reason perhaps anti-semitism doesn't feature as much now (though you still hear anti semitic prejudices quite a lot)is that hardly any Jews are left after 1941-45.Differentiating feature of Croatia in that period was that they annihilated most of their Jewish population under their own fascist government,as opposed to the Nazis.Put lots of Serbs and Roma into concentration type camps too, many killed.Tito had some pretty nasty massacre actions against "reactionary elements" in the payback after 1945.The Nazis are thought to have murdered half a million or more Roma. These things can end up happening where demnonisation of "the other" gets really out of control and acting on such prejudice becomes seen as a legitimate part of daily life for all "right thinking" people Edited by legaleagle (04 Jun 2015 11.46pm)
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legaleagle

04 Jun 15 11.30pm

In former Yugoslavia? No,not the underlying driving force IMO. Though the usual negatives associated with having been at the bottom of the heap and everyone's whipping boys for centuries.

Bear in mind,hundreds of years of blind prejudice and manipulation towards blaming all ills on "the other".

Also,bear in mind this is a region where hostility to people of the same race and largely culture has occurred too ie from "Bosnian Croats" towards "Bosnian Muslims".It is based on some very dodgy historical and ongoing prejudices,not all of which can be explained by religion or race. Same applies re Serbs and Croats (very similar ethnicity,though different religion) and Serbs and Kosovans (many "Albanian" muslims).But all very much based on prejudice towards "the other".

Very much based on hundreds of years of having demonised collectively other "groups" as "the enemy within" and/or "the other" and/or "out to get us".

The reason perhaps anti-semitism doesn't feature as much now (though you still hear anti semitic prejudices quite a lot)is that hardly any Jews are left after 1941-45.Differentiating feature of Croatia in that period was that they annihilated most of their Jewish population under their own fascist government,as opposed to the Nazis.Put lots of Serbs and Roma into concentration type camps too, many killed.Tito had some pretty nasty massacre actions against "reactionary elements" in the payback after 1945.The Nazis are thought to have murdered half a million or more Roma.

These things can end up happening where demnonisation of "the other" gets really out of control and acting on such prejudice becomes seen as a legitimate part of daily life for all "right thinking" people

Edited by legaleagle (04 Jun 2015 11.46pm)

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TheJudge 05 Jun 15 8.06am
Quote derben at 04 Jun 2015 10.41pm Quote legaleagle at 04 Jun 2015 10.13pm UK is IMO far from the worst, but no reason to be complacent.It exists here both overtly and more subconsciously in terms of mindset. Many people may well prefer to mix with "the similar" (and many don't) but not sure that's nowadays based on anything inherent or genetic.More conditioning and circumstance. As an example,look at the level of integration of 1950;s/60's immigrant families from W Indies/Africa one or two generations on from 1950's "attitudes/separateness". From my experience,countries in Former Yugoslavia,as a European example, are (big generality) seriously more racist,particularly in day to day attitudes towards Roma people,though there (as in some cases here) the negativity is also pronounced towards people from not too far away of differing ethnicity as well,at an equal level. Some of the stuff some (not all by far) people come up with about Muslims as a homogeneous group with group traits gets a little further along the line towards the Former Yugoslav attitude to other ethnicities and races nowadays. There are people who dislike Islam for perfectly good, rational, reasons. Of course not all Muslims wish to chop your head off or stone you to death for not being a Muslim, or for being gay, or Jewish, or for renouncing your faith because you've realised it is illiberal and vindictive. Not all Muslims agree with murdering people who publish cartoons, burning books and threatening their authors with death. Similarly, not all Muslims think women should be covered from head to foot, not allowed to be educated or to go to work, or even drive a car. However, there are quite a few who do. As for the 'Roma', do you think it is possible that peoples' view of them is coloured by their experience of them? What is remarkable is how well we tolerate each other. But then, we weren't asked if we wanted people from alien cultures moving here in their thousands in the first place. Perhaps many people just grin and bear it with little choice in the matter. All I know is that we now have a whole host of problems that we see in the news every week that we didn't have before. Do people blame Johnny foreigner for everything ? Maybe a small amount do but what is often missing from the news is the actual truth. It has been obscured by spin from both sides of the political fence.
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TheJudge

05 Jun 15 8.06am

Quote derben at 04 Jun 2015 10.41pm

Quote legaleagle at 04 Jun 2015 10.13pm

UK is IMO far from the worst, but no reason to be complacent.It exists here both overtly and more subconsciously in terms of mindset.

Many people may well prefer to mix with "the similar" (and many don't) but not sure that's nowadays based on anything inherent or genetic.More conditioning and circumstance.

As an example,look at the level of integration of 1950;s/60's immigrant families from W Indies/Africa one or two generations on from 1950's "attitudes/separateness".

As for the 'Roma', do you think it is possible that peoples' view of them is coloured by their experience of them?

What is remarkable is how well we tolerate each other. But then, we weren't asked if we wanted people from alien cultures moving here in their thousands in the first place. Perhaps many people just grin and bear it with little choice in the matter. All I know is that we now have a whole host of problems that we see in the news every week that we didn't have before. Do people blame Johnny foreigner for everything ? Maybe a small amount do but what is often missing from the news is the actual truth. It has been obscured by spin from both sides of the political fence.

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